BEYOND
Welcome to BEYOND, the personal growth podcast for leaders and high performers who are anointed.
I am your host, Katie Lynn, and with 20 years of experience in the field of psychology and human behavior I am bringing my natural curiosity, expertise and personal life experiences here for episodes that are guaranteed to be informative, inspiring and entertaining.
I am glad you’re here, let’s get started!
BEYOND
Ep. 35 Magnetic Femininity with Shelsey Jarvis
Discover the transformative power of authenticity in relationships with our special guest, Chelsea Jarvis, founder of Magnetic Femininity. Chelsea opens up about the concept of "magnetic femininity" as a path to forming genuine and fulfilling connections, challenging outdated stereotypes and encouraging women to embrace their true selves. Learn how to navigate common relationship challenges, set boundaries, and express your true feelings to create the love stories you desire.
Through personal anecdotes, we unpack the journey of unlearning societal conditioning and the shift from a "good girl" persona to an authentic, sovereign woman. Reflecting on past patterns of needing to be right, we explore how these tendencies can create disempowering dynamics and the importance of self-reflection and emotional regulation for healthier relationships. I share insights from my own experiences, highlighting the grace needed to process emotions during turbulent times and the value of seeking feedback.
Vulnerability is at the heart of deeper connections, and we dive into its significance in relationship growth. From dealing with long-distance relationship anxieties to overcoming communication barriers, we explore how honest, heart-centered communication opens supportive spaces for mutual understanding. Whether you're navigating dating dynamics or striving for effective communication, this episode offers invaluable advice to enhance your relationships. Plus, Chelsea invites listeners to join the Magnetic Femininity Facebook group for additional support and shared experiences in the journey towards authentic connections.
Connect with Shelsey Jarvis here:
facebook.com/groups/magneticfemininity
magneticfemininity.com
@shelsey.jarvis on Instagram
Send her a DM or email love@magneticfemininity.com
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Hello, my friend, and welcome to Beyond, the personal growth podcast for the people who are healing beyond their conditioning and beyond the cycles that played out before them. My name is Katie Lynn and, with 20 years of experience in the field of psychology and human behavior, I am bringing my natural curiosity, expertise and personal life experiences here for discussions that are guaranteed to be informative, inspiring and entertaining. I'm glad you're here. Let's get started, okay. Today on Beyond, we have the Chelsea Jarvis. She is a relationship coach and mentor who has been coaching since 2016. She founded Magnetic Femininity in 2019 from her own desire to find love and then in discovering the joy of helping other women find and experience it themselves Through learning and applying what she coaches on. She met her now partner in 2022. She coaches women on embodying feminine energy, self-love, communication and partnership skills to experience exceptional, extraordinary relationships. Chelsea, thank you so much for being on today. It's such an honor to have you here.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So the first thing that stands out for me as I have been following you for a while I've watched your journey unfold is this idea around magnetic femininity. Can you tell us, from your perspective, what that's all about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think it would help also to specify what it's not. First, because sometimes when people hear that there's a lot of negative associations, a lot of thinking that we're trying to send women back to the 50s, like through this idea of packaged femininity, that's very pleasing and agreeable and that is very much not what this is. Yes, yes, like we are not. This whole idea of magnetic femininity is not about being chosen to men, trying to be chosen, trying to be a good girl. It really comes down to being authentic and authentic is such a broad term so I'll drill in even a little bit more. But it's about expressing who you really are. It's about being available for what matters to you, being unavailable for what doesn't matter to you, drawing in the life experiences that you desire, not because you're trying or forcing, but because you are the woman that those experiences happen to Like.
Speaker 2:You know I specifically speak on relationships most of the time, so a big focus of my coaching is not trying to become the woman that a man chooses, but being the woman that a love story happens to like. Of course, that happened to her. Look at like who she's being in her life. Look at the level of communication skills she has, look at the level of compassion and empathy and connection that she's capable of. Of course, a love story happened for her, and so it's really just the magnetism that happens when we let ourselves be fully who we are, which is a tall order in a world that has told women who were supposed to be for God knows how long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that perspective of, rather than becoming the woman who a man chooses, you become the woman that a love story happens for. Like that, right, there is a quotable. I mean like put it on IG as a quote card because it's like it turns the mind right, like it opens up a different. I like to call it like opening up a different door that we can walk through, and it is within the context of possibility and within the context like immediately, as I say, that in my own body a creativity sparks right.
Speaker 1:There's like this creativity there's like this oh, there's like uptick in excitement and I wonder what my love story would look like. Right, and for my journey in being connected to my husband and now we're married and now we got a little one and we're doing the family thing, what I would pray for when I was single is an amazing love story. That was the ask is like let it be an incredible love story, and it really is. So I love that you phrase it that way. And the thing that also like really cued my ears is I hear people talk about being authentic and it is a broad brushstroke, right. I love that you're like it's such a big broad term, right, like and we say it as if it's like be purple.
Speaker 2:you know like we say it as if it's so simple like purple.
Speaker 1:I know it's not that simple. It's not that simple. So when you are working with the clients that you serve and the ask is like, how do I be attract good men?
Speaker 2:or you know what's going on there it's usually leading with. Here's the circumstance I'm experiencing what's going on, what WTF? But I don't think I've ever had a client be like how do I be more authentic? Like that's kind of one of the things that surfaces once we get going. And it surfaces when they come to me and they say I'm attracting men who are, for example, they seem really great at first and then a few months later or years later turns out they're really controlling. And what ends up purposely is in the beginning they weren't being authentic while dating because they weren't setting boundaries, they weren't speaking up when they were uncomfortable they weren't, and they also were uncomfortable they weren't, and they also, on the flip side, may not have been fully expressing their appreciation or what feels good to them, like they weren't being authentic in those ways and therefore the problems of this man being controlling simply didn't surface until a year later she finally set the boundary and realized that he can't deal with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's always something that surfaces and it is almost 100 of the time, some version of not being authentic during the dating process that causes these things to surface down the road that we didn't see in the beginning. And that's not to place blame on women, it's just. It's the things that we learn as we go through life, like me not speaking up for myself, not setting boundaries, not having standards, being afraid to have standards. That really just didn't lead to anything. Good, yeah, and so it always surfaces at some point during my conversations with clients, but it's never what they come to me and ask at some point during my conversations with clients, but it's never what they come to me and ask.
Speaker 1:So what I'm hearing is and everybody who's listening, if you're like in this, in a place, in a journey around relationships and it doesn't necessarily have to be romantic only because boundaries and authenticity infuses all relationships but really like, what I'm hearing is pattern recognition is like is there a pattern? Is there something that's showing up consistently, right? I heard the statement of like I keep attracting controlling men, or I keep attracting men who are amazing in the beginning and then at the three month mark something happens. Or one of the ones that I hear a lot of is like unavailable men, right, like they're available for a good time, but beyond that they're not emotionally available. They're, they're working all the time, or whatever that story is.
Speaker 2:So, as you dive into these things with women, what do you think the most powerful shift a woman can make as she's experiencing this is? I think the most powerful shift is responsibility, without blame, because it's very easy to listen to a dating expert or a relationship expert and listen to me saying all of the things that we women can be doing, both currently during the dating process, during the course of a developing relationship, and take a very defensive stance to that, like because are you saying that I'm? You know that I'm doing it wrong? Are you say what? Are you saying, chelsea? That I'm, it's my fault that he was this way? Or, and what I find really make the huge difference when they're able to listen through the lens of oh, like this is something that empowers me. I could be doing this differently, but I'm not wrong for the way I did it in the past. Like it's not about blaming, yes, the past versions of me.
Speaker 2:You're trying to hold this past version of me to a standard of what I'm learning right this minute, like that would not be fair to yourself for sure like when a woman is able to really take in this information and notice maybe the defensiveness coming up on her and was just totally okay, but say, okay, like I can feel my defensiveness coming up and I also know how to handle that part of me that wants to fight and and say, like, what are you saying, chelsea?
Speaker 2:I give the client's full permission to let me know if that defensiveness is coming up. If they're resisting something that I'm saying, they feel like they want to fight me on it Because it's okay. That just means there's a part of her that's feeling misunderstood or blamed by it and we obviously want to take the time to address that. But in general, when a client is able to make that shift and many of my clients come into my world with this shift already made A lot of my clients are already at that space in their personal development where they can take difficult feedback without blaming their past selves. But that really is such a big shift when they can take responsibility for themselves without blaming themselves.
Speaker 1:That's huge, because even in like my personal healing journey and I bring this forward just because your work is so resonant with a part of my life story like a chapter- in my book.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I really got to unlearn as I prepared for partnership is it was okay to be wrong because I was the girl. That was like I was the good girl, I made good decisions, I made good choices, I had great behavior, I was a good student. You know, like that identity of like good girl, you don't make waves, you know you go with the flow, you say please and thank you. And that led to a lot of rebellion in my early twenties because at that time I thought the opposite of the good girl was the bad girl.
Speaker 1:When in reality the opposite of the good girl is the sovereign woman, right, the, the authentic sovereign woman. And yet I there were still these patterns of behaviors of like, defensiveness or avoidance or passivity, right or perfectionism that like would come through. And it's so funny because I remember a moment in my younger years I was probably 10 or 11, and it was one of the most confusing moments and it still lives in my system and my mom and I were at the nail salon and I had gotten my nails done and I didn't like the color.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of women can resonate with this. We're at the nail salon and we're like that color didn't look that way on the model and she was so mad. My mom got so mad at me because not like mad, mad. But she was like say something, say something. And I was just like no, no, no, I'm not going to say anything, I'm not going to say anything. But it was a very confusing message because I was taught not to be disruptive, right Like to put other people's feelings ahead of my own.
Speaker 2:And then there, was this and then, all of a sudden, you're being taught, or all of a sudden you're being told in the moment to say something, and it's like yes, yes.
Speaker 1:It was. Yeah, I was like what do you mean? Like I'm going to hurt her feelings. She probably thinks she painted. She did a good job painting it. I don't want to be trouble, I don't want to cause trouble. So this conditioning, like if we now in dynamics, when I feel that defensiveness coming up, it's really an invitation for me to regulate myself and be with myself and also go oh, there's something here that I feel vulnerable about. What is that vulnerability?
Speaker 2:Yeah, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:So what you speak to is so powerful for everyone who's like listening, because I think that whole I'm not allowed to be wrong you know, I always had to be right.
Speaker 2:That was just ask my ex-husband. I look back and I'm like, oh, that poor guy.
Speaker 2:I was like right, Right and obviously, like you know, he had his part in why the marriage didn't work out and all that, but like this was one of my parts Like I, I must have been exhausting sometimes, because I just look back and I'm like I don't know why I had to be so right all the time. Yeah, I mean, I know why, I know why I've done the inner work, but I felt kind of bad for him. I'm like, oh shoot, he had to put up with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, one of the most powerful things and you've probably done this with your ex-husband too is I had I actually went back and like had to sit down with my ex-husband and asked him like what did you see? Like what happened, Like what was the experience? Like I asked him for feedback and because I remember him saying to me one day and at the time it just you know it like set me on a whole thing, right, A whole tangent of, like anger and rage and all of that. But he shared with me I don't think you're ever going to be happy. And in that moment, right, here comes the defenses, here comes the how dare he, you know, like making it wrong.
Speaker 1:I'm the victim, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right, Whatever came up in that moment, in that wounding, and when I asked him for feedback and I really sat with it, what he was sharing with me was that my internal critic started to pour out of me and infect the dynamic and then, because I couldn't be wrong, he wasn't allowed to disagree or hold another perspective. So it was extremely. I created an environment that was actually really extremely disempowering for both of us.
Speaker 2:I love that you actually went back to him and directly asked for that. I didn't go back to my ex-husband and directly ask him, but it was more, like you know, after our separation. You know he said a lot of things in anger and it was more like I was sifting through what he was saying, like trying to take the feedback. And it was more like I was sifting through what he was saying, like trying to take the feedback where it was available and, you know, trying to not hold on to how it was said, but rather, like you know, listening to what he was saying. And one of the things that he was saying was like I could never be right, or like I could never be wrong, like I always had to be right. And I didn't appreciate the way he said it to me, but I did accept it as valid because there was truth to it. And the way he said it came out crooked, because he was, I guess, 38 at the time and had never really let himself feel emotions and all of a sudden his world was falling apart. So I just I chose to have some grace for the way he was thinking things because I understood like he doesn't know how to deal with this level of emotion and it might take him some time to figure out. So I did my best to just not get too hung up on how he said it but rather, like I did do my best to listen to what the content of what he was saying and ask myself, like, is there some truth to?
Speaker 2:And some of the things I think were completely out of line and didn't really have anything to do with the situation at hand. But there was some things that he said that definitely had some truth to them, when I really sat with myself and I had to get real. And now we joke about these things. You know, now we're five years post-divorce and you know we have a really great relationship. So you know, him and his girlfriend came over for Thanksgiving dinner the other night and you know it was. I love that we can just joke about the way our dynamic always, always has been and it is purely in guests now, like there really is no path of aggressiveness on Ingrid. It's just like I will make jokes about how I always have to be right, for example, and it's genuinely funny now because we're in such a good place and so it was more like looking for the feedback that was being offered, maybe in a ways that it could have been very easy to dismiss it, but yeah, I chose to look for it there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's so powerful and what you speak to is the healing that's possible and it's like the opening for authenticity. Is that acceptance? Is that acceptance and awareness of like I can get defensive when I feel like my feelings might get hurt or when I feel weak, right Cause one of one of my things personally is like feeling powerless.
Speaker 1:And so it's like, oh, rather than becoming defensive and using anger or trying to push it away, can I take a pause and admit that in this moment I am experiencing the feeling of powerlessness, and can I say that out loud to my person, my partner, my husband, but even to yourself? Yes, yeah, like admitting it to yourself first, yeah, exactly, and like being like I feel powerless and then being able to admit it to him because the last thing he would want to do on the planet is make me feel powerless. Right, like that's the last of his intentions. So the moment I admit it to myself, my system cools down, because it's like we're with the truth now and in that truth I can be seen fully and actually receive a response that's more accurate from the person I'm trying to collaborate with and partner with, and it's so much easier said than done.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, exactly, uh-huh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's something I tell my clients. Like, so much of communication is just saying the actual thing. Like, yes, I give lots of communication strategies but they all boil down to just saying the actual thing, instead of dancing around saying the thing that you're trying to avoid saying. Sometimes people mistake that for just verbally spewing whatever comes to mind, which is not what I mean. Yeah, not at all what I mean. Yeah, not at all what I mean. But rather looking for actually what's true underneath, underneath the anger, underneath the frustration, underneath the you know disappointment. Like what's underneath all of that. Saying that, and not with an accusation, not with blame, but just letting it be true, letting it be valid and stand on its own. And when you can do that with yourself first and then, like, let your partner see it, like, oh my gosh, the intimacy that that creates is just unreal.
Speaker 1:It's unreal and that's, and that's really where, like in relationship, that friction, like we now hold it as a beautiful thing because it is that invitation to deeper intimacy, if we can bring ourselves to being present with it and stay with ourselves and each other in it, it always creates this opening. That's like, wow, you know, now I feel even closer to you. Now I feel like I understand you more and I also understand me more to you.
Speaker 2:Now I feel like I understand you more and I also understand me more and, like just saying, the thing is so powerful Like I. Just the other night, my partner and I had a conversation like he's in the process of applying for his visa to come live here. Like for those who don't know my story, my partner lives 6,000 kilometers away and he's coming to live with me, like in the next month or two is whatever his visa gets approved, and I could feel that there were some tears yeah in the way, standing in the way, so I won't like divulge what his fears were, just because that's you know.
Speaker 2:Let's talk to me about that personally. But you know, when we had this conversation the other night and I asked him how it was going and he said you know, I've been wanting to talk to you about this and he just kind of shared with me what's been going on on his mind, like what's been on his heart, and I just listened and I was actually driving at the time, because I was driving home from the airport, and I pulled over and I just said listen, I know who you are. Like none of this, like I don't. I don't know if he thought that I was going to be upset with you or judgmental or anything, but I was like I know who you are.
Speaker 2:You know this is, this is nothing we can't handle. I'm, you know I'm, I'm here, we've, we've got this. And he just felt an entire weight off of him and he just felt like, okay, now I can do this. And you know he was able to get into action again and I mean I've had so many moments where it was me feeling like, ah, there's something on my heart that I really that's been weighing on me, that I know that I need to share with him. I need to talk to him about and saying the real thing. It created a space where I could actually feel supported because you can never feel supported if you don't really share the real thing For sure.
Speaker 2:So actually having the courage to say the real fear, the real vulnerability, and then actually let yourself be seen in that and give them a chance to hold you in it, Give them a chance to say, oh my gosh, like that is the most healing thing in the world. There's nothing better Like this is one of the best things about being in a relationship. And so many people don't even give themselves the chance to experience that because they're scared to say the thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's nothing that is more alchemical for a man than a woman in her heart, center truth, when a woman really communicates from her heart, heart, that place of vulnerability and honesty.
Speaker 2:Well, I remember there was one time, like relatively early on, maybe in the first six months or ish, something like that, and I was feeling really anxious and like I was having one of those moments where I was like, checking my phone, like when was the last time you texted me? Like oh, it's been a while? And, overthinking, looking at my messages, did I say something wrong? I was in my head. So in that moment the need that I, like the surface need, felt like I need him to reach out to me, I need to talk to him. But when I actually sat with myself and I was like, okay, first of all, put put down phone, put down the phone and walk away from the phone, been there.
Speaker 2:And I really sat with myself and I said, okay, like this isn't about, his communication pattern hasn't actually really changed. Like this is it's not, like it's been days or whatever, like it's been hours. So that's not the issue here. What is the actual problem? And when I really sat with myself no, no, no, actually this was how it went I did actually reach out to him because I got a little too anxious and I reached out and you know he, we had a short conversation, it was great, but then I afterwards, I still had that niggling feeling like oh, that didn't do it, that didn't scratch the itch. And so I was like, okay, well then, what was the itch? Like he didn't say anything wrong. He, like he didn't say anything. That was worrisome.
Speaker 2:And when I really thought with it, that was when I realized, actually the problem was I was having a fear about something that we hadn't yet talked about, that I really needed something, like I needed to know, because we're long, long distance and I don't we don't get to see each other all the time I was having a fear that I would end up in a relationship with somebody who's not, you know, into planning dates and into being proactive about that type of thing, and I was getting really scared about that because I was like I don't get to see that all the time with him. So, of course, just simply having a quick text conversation didn't scratch that itch because it was trying to solve the wrong problem. Yeah, like I was trying to solve that surface problem, but the underlying problem, which is this, this fear, or rather this realization that we hadn't really fully talked about this, or really fully, or I hadn't fully seen that side of him at that point I I brought it up to him and I said, look, I'm feeling weird just because I'm realizing I don't get to see this side of you, with the nature of our relationship being what it is, and I'm realizing that there's some fear coming up around that. And so we did have a conversation about it and he talked about what date look like for him, like what he desires to offer long term and, of course, like we never want to take things on words alone. So I did have to watch for actions backing that up over time. But it did make me feel better In the meantime that he understood my concerns, that he could see where I was coming from.
Speaker 2:He could, he understood what's important to me, and he understood also why it was important to me, because I was in a marriage where I felt really, really alone and the last couple of years of our relationship we basically just sat on the couch and watched Netflix every night and that's my worst nightmare. I know there's lots of people who would love that. I am not one of them. I want to like do things. So I was terrified.
Speaker 2:So I had to have a conversation with him about that, just to share my fears, not from a place of accusing him of anything, but just letting him know like this is what I'm thinking about, this is what I'm realizing.
Speaker 2:We don't get a lot of opportunity to see from each other being long distance like this, and it gave him a chance to really take that into consideration, to give me reassurance on the spot, but also every time we are able to spend time together. He's so amazing at planning things and like I get to go there and just turn my brain off, which is saying a lot because it's still Columbia and yeah, yeah, the fact that I get, I can go there and just not not have to worry Like where are we going? I'm down for anything, where are we going and I get to completely relax over time. That did tell me what I need to know through action. But anyway, the point of this story is sharing vulnerably what was on my heart in that moment. It gave me the chance to really understand me better. It's all about reassurance on the spot, but then to take that into account in action.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the thing about what I hear in your share that is really potent to me as I listen is when we do communicate authentically and vulnerably in this way, it also opens up the opportunity for the other person to make a choice. Yes, and there is that space right, like you said. I think I heard you say like I shared it with him and then he got to be aware and then he got to decide how he was going to move, because in that moment, right when we bring something that's so vulnerable to our person, they actually have the opportunity to say yes or say no, and that's the rejection stuff right.
Speaker 2:That's the whole reason why we don't share it. Exactly right.
Speaker 1:It's like the real, like that's what makes it so vulnerable. Is that, oh my gosh? I and it was honestly when in the healing process. If we say we want honesty, if we say we want deep connection, if we say we want truth, then we're also asking for these moments of tension, right and of freedom and of choice.
Speaker 2:Tension is the perfect word.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that tension is unreal, like it still happens sometimes in our, in my marriage now, where it's like I will say I feel nervous to say this. You know, I feel nervous to admit this to you because the thing about it and you probably experience this yourself and with the women that you work with is that you just continue to grow. So it's not like this stops you know it's not like you. You find your person and then you know, all the vulnerability becomes easier. Oh, because I would say it becomes easier.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, you find like your way with it yeah, it's like because you have, you have that evidence that they can hold it and that you know, over over time, like you do start to feel really solid with them, like, even though I feel nervous to say this, ultimately I know they're not going anywhere. Like I know that you know he's my person and there's nothing I could say that would make him stop loving me. Or and it's like you do get to that point, but I yeah, I would. I would still say like it's still outside of our comfort zone every once in a while and I think that's a good thing. It means our comfort zone is going for sure, and like things keep getting bigger and bigger and we receive more and more, and yeah, and it's good.
Speaker 2:So in the healing work, would you say that women are expanding their capacity to be with sensation as they go through the work with you.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of nervous system work involved in this because, you know, in the dating process, like something, one of the hardest parts of the dating process I have found, both with myself and with my client, is when you, when you encounter that place of I've caught feelings for this man, like we've been on, you know, four or five, six dates or whatever, like things are developing, things are going super well, but we're not exclusive yet and I don't know, like I don't know it could still.
Speaker 2:I don't know it could still the rug could still get ripped out from under me, like there's just that that period of uncertainty where it's like, oh, I'm starting to feel things for this man, but I also don't have the certainty that this is going to work out. And so there is that period of time where, very often, if a woman doesn't know how to deal with it or a man for that matter, if a human doesn't know how to deal with it, that's when they'll either find fault with it and run just so that they can get some relief from that tension or that sensation, or they'll like lean in and like try really hard to make it work, try to like lock it down, and they don't know how to just sit in this neutral space and hold all of that sensation in their body and hold the tension and not hold it as in like yeah, not that kind of holding it.
Speaker 2:It's not like a constipation holding it but like, but like a more just, like allowing it to move through you without impeding it, you know, without stopping it or suppressing it, or like trying to take some sort of action to get out of it.
Speaker 1:That part right there yeah, right there that part of like wait, am I moving? Cause I'm trying to get out of it, yeah, or am I moving?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's why, like people who tend to have a more anxious attachment style in uncertainty, they will lean in, and or they'll be so self-conscious about leaning in that they'll lean away and try to compensate for the fact that they want to lean in. And either way, it comes out like that there's no space around them, and so it creates a very like energetically repulsive environment, and that causes men to pull away because they can feel like they're I don't know what is going on, but there is like there's no room for me here Like they can feel like they can't go in and out, and they can't go in, they can't go out.
Speaker 1:For sure. And it's interesting because one of the first things that came up in the dynamic when my husband and I were dating and we decided like okay, we're going to take this seriously, you know like we're we're doing this thing is he would. I have a son, who's now 13,. But at the time that we met he was seven and my husband would help me clean up the house and it actually would irritate me.
Speaker 1:And I was like why is this irritating, like I would get so bothered.
Speaker 1:And as I examined it, I was like, oh, my brain registers his help as him saying that I'm in effect, that I'm not good enough, that I'm not doing enough and that I am not a good enough mom, I don't keep a good enough home, I don't write like all of this stuff. And when I was able to be with the sensation and I don't write like all of this stuff, and when I was able to be with the sensation and I really am a fan personally of like breathing through it, and then I also it's important for me to journal it out because my communication runs really fast through me. So I've got to like I actually lean more avoidant because I got to take space so that I can sort out my thoughts and my emotions and then bring them forward. And so what, when I took space and I brought it back his and I shared it with him, his perspective was like oh, that was not my intention at all. You know, like I was trying to help you, cause I really feel like nobody should have to do this alone.
Speaker 1:You know which is?
Speaker 1:I would never want you to do this alone which is so like my heart right Melted when he said that. I was like, oh my gosh, like I never would have thought of that, and it was a really tangible example of how my brain will write its own stories based on my wounding and based on my attachment style, and I get to catch it and ask myself if I want to keep that story or not, and is it really helping me to create the experience I want to create in my life with myself and with this person?
Speaker 2:And like the way that you handled it was amazing, because you got the chance to sort out your feelings and bring them to him in a very like neutral, like not emotionally charged way, where he's not feeling accused, he's not feeling blamed, it's just you're sharing how you experienced it, and so that gave him the chance to say, oh, like, wait a minute, that's this is how I experienced it and you were able to come through it together, knowing each other better, feeling even closer than you did before the incident.
Speaker 2:And the problem that a lot of people experience is a lot of women will experience something like that and they'll say, like stop cleaning my house.
Speaker 2:Or like they'll just kind of quote unquote, communicate it in a way that's not super helpful, that kind of is accusing him of doing something wrong or complaining or something like that, and that creates a hostile environment where he's going to get defensive. Like 99.9% of the time when we approach someone like that, they're going to get defensive, not even just a man, just like a human, anyone, yeah, anyone. They're going to get defensive if we bark something at them like stop cleaning, like you're dragging me out, stop cleaning, blah, blah, blah. Like people don't like being approached like that. So communicating it and I have air quotes around communicating it's not going to elicit a positive response. And I have air quotes around communicating it's not going to elicit a positive response. And then a lot of women will accuse him of getting, of being defensive whenever she tries to communicate something it's like. But we have to look at the way we're communicating and ask ourselves if, like if we look at self-respecting human beings, do self-respecting human beings respond well to being approached like that?
Speaker 1:Like no, not usually. Yeah, yeah, and this is one of the things when I would I mean, I still do it with some of the women that I work with now, but I would encourage anyone who's listening to if you feel like you're working on your communication or you're, you're healing and preparing, you know, for a partnership or you're already in partnership and you really want to like refine this. The thing that I did that was so helpful is I filmed myself talking to camera for like a year straight, because, for me, I'm trained as a therapist, right. So like when you train as a therapist.
Speaker 1:You're like a blank slate, right. You're like a very caring, loving, empathetic blank slate. So I actually it was important for me to unlearn my personal expression and that was a part of my training. However, that's not really great in partnership or relationship because you don't want to be a blank slate, and so I, when I first started filming myself, there was such a disconnect. I would be saying something that was that I care deeply about in my face would be, my expression would be blank and I would watch this, I would watch this back on camera and I was like, well, no wonder I feel misunderstood right or no?
Speaker 1:wonder like I feel invisible or not heard, because I'm saying something that is deeply emotional for me and my face looks like I'm talking about the weather, you know. And it was like this epiphany. And then like building that muscle back of allowing my, my internal world to match my external expression and bring that coherence together was really important for me because that really was one of my major blocks to authenticity. It's like I knew what my truth was. It wasn't coming out, it wasn't translating yeah, it wasn't translating at all.
Speaker 1:So now I'm kind of at the opposite end where, like, I get to slow down because when I'm in a heightened state of emotions my tendency is to speed up and I get to catch that and be like there's no rush. There's no rush, there's no pressure, there's nowhere to get to. You know, like, be with it, be present and when I can intervene that way, it's super helpful. But I wanted to share that with the listeners because this is something that I think is really common for not just women but humans in general. It's like can you not just say the words but watch how you say it and hear how you say it and the tonality and the pace? You know the?
Speaker 2:emphasis. The other thing that has to do with that also is like I love the idea, by the way, of reporting yourself. That's brilliant. The other thing that would be related to that is a lot of the time we women, we think we're communicating effectively because we're saying something like please take out the trash for example and to us as women, like if you say that to another woman, she knows exactly what you mean.
Speaker 2:She knows, she understands, she gets it. And it's not that men don't understand the idea of taking out the trash, it's that they, literally their brain, functions so differently. Their motivation for taking out the trash is not the same thing as our motivation for taking out the trash, is not the same thing as our motivation for taking out the trash like. They'll do it if they think it makes us happy, if they think it makes us you know, it takes the burden off our shoulders and makes us feel more at ease. That makes us, it impacts us in a positive way, they will do it, no problem, yeah. But if they think they're doing it to follow orders, like it's not gonna like, that doesn't appeal to them, they don't care about, they don't care about being perceived as nice or agreeable or or anything like that. And you know, sometimes to their, to their credit, and sometimes to their detriment, but they don't really care about being perceived perceived as nice or agreeable. And so we think I have communicated, I have told him what I want. But when we, when we learn how to communicate in man language, which is to say, like voicing the impact that'll have a have on us for him to do that when and I actually like I was just in Puerto Rico and at a dance retreat and I was having this fascinating conversation with one of the men in the in the dance retreat, when he asked what I do, he was fascinated by it and we got into this conversation about feminine communication and all of that, and I love that, the way he shared what works for him when women ask him of something or ask something of him, and he said, when she said, like you know, when you, if we did that, it would make me feel really stressed. I'm wondering, like, if we could do this instead.
Speaker 2:Like he literally said, when she tells me how she feels, like I will take action on that, like no problem. If she said something I'm doing or want to do makes her feel stressed, I want to solve that problem and I don't cause, I don't want to make her feel stressed. Or if she tells me something feels good, then like makes her happy or, you know, takes the load off her shoulders. I want to do it more. I want to have that impact on her and I didn't I didn't coach him to say that I didn't even tell him, like, how I teach women to speak. But that is literally it. He was literally saying, like if she tells me how she feels, oh my gosh, like done, it's done. And I just, I loved that so much.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's one of the most brilliant truths and it creates so much space for again like just authenticity and real relating and and honoring. Right Cause, when I communicate this way with my husband, his response makes me feel so honored, all you know, all the time. And and you said something that I think I just want to pull out for for the listeners and that is, you know that men don't really care about appeasing or satisfying or or sort of validating somebody else's experience of them per se, and I think that's so important because, while it can be something that, as women, we don't fully understand because we're wired differently, yeah, it's also the very thing that makes me feel safe with a man.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is that he actually he can't be manipulated and he won't cower to circumstances. Do you know what I mean? If he feels like he needs to belong or whatever, he'll just go, he'll just, he'll just find another solution, you know. But like that firmness and that stand, like that's how it lands in my body is that like they're not afraid to take a stand for their principles and what they believe in and who they are, and like you either get with it or you don't get with it, you know, and either way they're going to have a great day.
Speaker 2:Which is exactly why, like when we're dating, we have to learn how to be okay with men who are not interested in pleasing and, you know, bending over backwards Like that, that is a green flag.
Speaker 2:but a lot of women a lot of women take it as a red flag because they think if he liked me he would do whatever I want. And not true, not true, not true. And so I mean there is nuance to that. So like, obviously we don't want a man who totally disregarded your wellbeing Obviously your wellbeing still has to be at the forefront but your opinion of him is not, is not what drives him, it's not like I need her to think she, I need her to think that I'm, you know, amazing and the best and the nicest, and you know. So, looking for those men who do have that solidity in themselves and they're, they care more about how they're making you feel in general, like your experience of being with them. And then you know the sad thing is just so many women think men don't care about their feelings. I'm like our feelings are so high on the list of what they care about.
Speaker 1:Yes, it's so true and actually, ironically, one of the experiences that reflected back to me that my healing was really working was when I experienced an interaction with a man and we had fantastic chemistry.
Speaker 1:And I was single and I was like wow, like this is amazing, you know.
Speaker 1:And as we sort of fostered this relationship that never really fully went into a relationship, it was very, it was like friendship, with a lot of chemistry.
Speaker 1:He actually came to me and he told me like look, this is not going to get romantic because I am not capable or willing to give you the lifestyle that I feel like you deserve. And I was so like that in that moment I was like whoa, you know, like yeah, I don't know how to feel with that because on one hand, I really appreciate the honesty and like how deeply he cares about, he hears what I desire, he hears what I say, I am longing for and wanting to experience in my life, and he's done the work with himself and honors and respects my experience enough to be forthright with me about that. And that was a real turning point for me and I think what you're sharing around like a man respects so deeply. You know your feelings and your experiences of the world, that a man with high integrity actually doesn't want to lead you down a road where he knows you might end up getting hurt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he certainly does not want to be the reason that you feel disappointed in life. Like for sure that's the most heartbreaking thing for for a man of integrity, like if he can already see if he's going to disappoint you, and not not because he's not enough or because he's sure, like it doesn't even have anything to look at necessarily, but yeah, he just, he wants you to be happy, even if it's not with him. Exactly, and like the experience of men don't care about women feeling it is so. I mean, I know that there are some men who are indifferent to women's feelings, like those men exist. But so many men actually care so much about our feelings and sometimes even in a misguided way. You know they, like I was talking about ghosting with a client earlier Like it's not because men don't care about their, your feelings that they're ghosting, it's because they're afraid of your feelings, they're afraid that you're going to lash out, they're afraid, you know, and it is a lack of emotional intelligence, a gap of emotional intelligence in that.
Speaker 2:But you know, we had the, we had the conversation because my client was in a position where she accidentally ghosted somebody without and I was like, so you see how it can happen, Like when you're just afraid of how they're going to respond and you keep putting it off, and putting it off, and putting it off and like it's. You know it's the same thing with men like they're just, they do care about your feelings and they're not looking forward to hurting your feelings, yeah, and then they put it off, and put it off, and put it off until now. All of a sudden, it's been a week and it feels weird to reach out and say something now, so like. So I'm not saying it's always the healthiest of behaviors, but when we can understand that men truly do care about our feelings and proceed from that place rather than assuming that they just don't care, they're indifferent, like, and I feel we don't we don't really get to see that side of men until we're brave enough to show our feelings.
Speaker 2:So, like if you go through the world a brick wall, you're just never going to experience that side of men.
Speaker 1:And so many of us, as women do, just thinking we're protecting ourselves or something, or we at least. I knew I did it's well-intentioned yeah. It's like if I'm on a time crunch, you know I'm hopping out, I'm running into target, I'm getting what I need and I'm in and out. You know, I'm not like smiling and saying hi and you know, I'm not in my open, you know.
Speaker 1:I'm not in my open feminine presence, and that's something that I that I work on more, because I find that when I do operate in that space of being open and being present and not rushing myself and not stressing myself, I really meet incredible people you know like everywhere I go, and so that's really fun for me.
Speaker 1:So I've I've made it a point to work that muscle more, but it really is a thing, and the distinction that I appreciate is the distinction between healthy men who are still learning and just this men that are unhealthy and not interested in learning at all. Right, like one of the things that that stood out about my husband and I as a match is that neither of us were perfect. We're never going to be, and we both had a willingness to meet each other Like nothing I've ever seen before.
Speaker 2:It's the willingness like, the willingness to like. Okay, you're going to say the wrong thing Sometimes, you're going to do the wrong thing sometimes, but you're both human and there's, you know, something I tell my clients is in the right relationship, there is room for course correction Always, you know, if you screw it up with someone you're dating and it's screwed up beyond repair, like you can't apologize or course correct or whatever then they just weren't the right person. And you know, I there's been times when I've said the wrong thing or when my partner said the wrong thing and we just we speak up and we apologize and repair it. And then we know each other better and we're better on the other side of it.
Speaker 1:For sure. Oh my gosh, this is amazing. I feel like we could go for another hour. There's so much to talk. I swear these hours go so fast I'm like so can you please tell us where the listeners can find more of you if they would like it?
Speaker 2:The best place is the magnetic femininity Facebook group. I can give you the link to that if you'd like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've done it, I've got it. I'll put it in the show notes for them. Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:So that, like I posted near regularly, but it's also like a community. It's not just me posting things there, it's actually a community that people use to get feedback on their dating journeys, and the thing that I pride myself most about this group is that it is a very uplifting space, which is a bit which is no small thing when it comes to dating For sure, because there's a lot of negativity out there and I keep my face really clean. Right now there's about 5,000 people in there and we really pride ourselves on making it productive. You know if, even if there's negative experiences being posted, making sure that we're not just venting and spewing negativity, but we're like actually asking productive questions like, yeah, to help you process the experience, or to make sure it doesn't happen again, or things like that, and so, overall, I'm really, really proud of the fact that it is a space in relationship where people can go to learn from a positive perspective and not be dealing with a bunch of people who are just jaded and miserable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that and I have watched you grow this Facebook group, which is incredible, and just the way that you hold it energetically is so beautiful, and I love the way that you teach on this because it's so empowering. You know, and I think that that's really where we're headed in our relationships in the future is like a very empowering, authentic and true form of relating that I I don't know that we've ever seen really before in our society. So I think it's a very exciting time, you know, for this yeah, for this to be coming up. So, thank you for being on today and for agreeing to be a guest. I'm. This has just been so cool.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me as we complete this episode.
Speaker 1:I would love to know your insights, takeaways and feedback. You can message me on Instagram at katielinrojano, or send them via email to katie at katielinrojanocom. Any products or digital downloads I mentioned can be found via the link in my Instagram bio. If you enjoyed this episode, I encourage you to share it with at least one friend and leave a five-star review so we can get these impactful dialogues into the lives of even more people. I would also like to thank my guests for their vulnerability and generosity in allowing us to learn from them and grow alongside them. Until next time, friends, let's go beyond.