BEYOND
BEYOND
Ep. 26 BEYOND A Narcissist: Integration and Healing with Madeline
What if recognizing your inherent leadership qualities started with overcoming the deepest of personal challenges?
In this powerful episode, I coach Madeline, a dynamic CEO, who courageously shares her journey of escaping a six-year abusive, narcissistic relationship. She opens up about the overwhelming shame and guilt she faced and how the birth of her son became a pivotal moment of clarity, leading her to break free and reclaim her strength. Listen as Madeline's heartfelt session reveals the transformative power of self-compassion and empathy in healing from past traumas.
Join us as we navigate the complexities of imposter syndrome and the importance of reframing past mistakes as fundamental steps in our growth journeys. This episode dives deep into the significance of self-acceptance and the beauty of personal transformation during vulnerable seasons. By sharing personal stories and profound realizations, we aim to inspire anyone who sees their struggles reflected in Madeline's experience. Discover how pivotal moments, like becoming a parent, can bring about profound clarity and lead to healthier, more authentic lives. This episode is a testament to the strength required to overcome adversity and the hope found in embracing one's true self.
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Hello, my friend, and welcome to Beyond the personal growth podcast for the people who are healing beyond their conditioning and beyond the cycles that played out before them. My name is Katie Lynn and, with 20 years of experience in the field of psychology and human behavior, I am bringing my natural curiosity, expertise and personal life experiences here for discussions that are guaranteed to be informative, inspiring and entertaining. I'm glad you're here. Let's get started. Okay, today on the podcast, we have Madeline. Madeline, thank you so much for being on. It's wonderful to have you here. What would you like to?
Speaker 2:create today. Yes, I'm so excited to be here. I feel like there were so many things going through my head.
Speaker 2:I think the biggest thing that I've struggled with is a lot of shame around my life and business and how it was all created from kind of a really scary situation, from leaving a narcissist who's very abusive in all ways, and it's been a big challenge of mine to feel proud of where I am and what I've created, because it came from so much negativity and it's been hard for me to share certain things or be excited for certain things when it comes to my life and my business, because you know it's it was years and years of abuse and I feel ashamed.
Speaker 2:I even let it happen to me, especially in a place that you know I've always been in leadership roles in the companies that I've worked for. Now I own a business and in the CEO role where people look up to me and it feels like that imposter syndrome, almost of like how could you look up to me? I let you know, all of these things happen to me for years and years and, um, I think that's the biggest thing that I really struggle with, uh, to this day, yeah, how long were you in that relationship for that?
Speaker 2:was like six years of my life and a lot of ups and downs.
Speaker 2:We had a miscarriage together, which I think was that like extra bonding, you know, like factor of going through that, and so I kind of stayed in that and then ended up we had a son together after the miscarriage and so it just kind of like these things kept happening that kept it together and I felt like I had to stay until I had my son.
Speaker 2:And really then my eyes were opened to like wow, like I would never let him treat my son this way, like how have I let him treat me this way? Like I would never let him treat my son this way, like how have I let him treat me this way? And I think that's where all that shame and guilt comes from of like gosh, I didn't even see that I wasn't taking care of myself. I couldn't even see beyond that it took me having my baby. I always say I'm like my son totally saved my life and I'm so grateful for how things happened because I am now out of that situation. But but yeah, it's very hard for me to know what I put up with and let happen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to acknowledge you first, before we dive into this, for your ability to see it when your son was born and then to have the courage and the conviction to make the changes that needed to be made, because it's not easy, even if we're intelligent women and we are talented and we have all of the qualities. Making a change like that like leaving an unhealthy relationship or we want to give, I think, everything, our best and our all, and I think in those circumstances.
Speaker 1:sometimes we question ourselves of like am I, have I done everything I can? Have I given everything that I can? Am I being gracious, Am I being kind? Right, Do you resonate with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, All of that ran through my head like the entire time. I'm like maybe just one more session of therapy or maybe this, you know, like tried every single thing until I just couldn't anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in this moment, do you believe that you gave it everything you could have?
Speaker 2:Oh now, yes, A hundred percent. I definitely pushed to get to that point and I after that there was no turning back. Um, you know, I knew I had made that decision and it was done, great. So.
Speaker 1:I want to do a little, uh, an exercise with you, if you're open to it. Sure, I'd like for you to close your eyes. And are you a visual person? Okay, okay, great. I'd like you to imagine the version of you, let's say, six and a half years ago. I'd like you to imagine the version of you, let's say, six and a half years ago. I'd like you to see her in front of you as if she's standing in front of you. Okay, let me know when you can see her. I can see her, okay. How do you feel when you see?
Speaker 2:her sad for her she seems broken, lost.
Speaker 1:So I feel a lot of empathy, I guess, and sadness. Yeah, you now keep your eyes closed, you as the version of the woman that you are now, knowing what you've navigated in the last six and a half years, knowing what you've been through, knowing who you've become. What would you say to her?
Speaker 2:That's a good question. I would probably say that it does get better, like you will be okay, cause I know how hopeless I felt and that this was just going to be my life and that you actually will get through it and as hard as it's going to be, it's you're going to make it out and it's going to be okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:How does it feel to say that? I mean, it feels good to say that because now I'm, I feel like I'm on the other side and I think that's I don't have as much compassion for myself because I blame myself for a lot, but it really wasn't. It really wasn't my fault, you know. I think it was the I feel like the frog in boiling water, where it's like I didn't notice so many things for so long until it got really bad and then I felt stuck and so that's not my fault. Like that was something that happened, you know to me and you know I finally have gone through it. Yeah, it's, I need to have more compassion, I think, for myself.
Speaker 1:Uh instead of the. It sounds like you already have it Like you were able to access it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were able to access it when you closed your eyes and when you saw her in front of you. Yes, so it's not like there's no compassion. Yeah, yep, it seems more like maybe there gets to be an embrace of her, an embrace of the choices, the vulnerability, right. It sounds like when I said how does she feel for you? You're like, she seems sad, she seems lost. I can't remember if you said broken or not, yeah, but what a tender place, right, and you in your best would have never chosen. You probably could have seen the signs, you probably could have intuitively connected and been like something really does feel off, right. And I think as humans, and especially as women, we have these very vulnerable seasons in our life that often come in so that we can get a lesson that is literally going to usher in the greatest transformation we've experienced, which it sounds like you've experienced since then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and man, is it ugly, you know, like don't we wish it could be beautiful and you know very fairytale is so true, you know.
Speaker 1:Disney, esque, maybe even, and it's not, yeah, and it's not. And so we kind of look back at it with this judgment, and I heard a word that you used a couple of times and that was fault, like it wasn't my fault, and I want to pull this out a little bit and just untangle it a bit because, even if it was, you still deserve compassion and love and acceptance and honoring, right, I think of, like our toddlers, which we connected over.
Speaker 1:You know it's like it's like I spilled my milk and it's like it definitely, you know. Or sometimes, if they get angry, maybe they throw a block Right and we're like don't throw the block.
Speaker 1:And there, you know, and it's like that's something like that we would bring in the concept of fault or we could. And even still, you know, it's like that's something like that we would bring in the concept of fault or we could, and even still it's like I still love you, I'm still here with you, you still are worthy of all the beautiful things in the world, and maybe let's make a different choice next time. Now we have greater awareness of how things move and who we are. How does that feel for?
Speaker 2:you.
Speaker 2:I really love that, yeah, and I think this is actually super helpful because I feel like I have I almost compartmentalize what happened to me before and like I kind of put her in a corner.
Speaker 2:So when we're talking about like the compassion piece, I, when I'm sitting and I can like visualize like we just did, it's helpful, and then I like put her back away and I think I need to be okay with living in that, like that, yes, that happened, but it's part of me, and like now, look at all this goodness that's happening after, like I did, like you just said, um, and have the compassion and still it's just a part of me and not have to like hide it away, cause I think that's what builds on that shame, and like spirals that I go on because I'm like, oh, I just got to put her back over there, like, ooh, I don't want to like talk about that because that wouldn't be something someone would like look up to me for, you know, but technically I think maybe it would be like I did actually make a better choice after and it's so that's eye opening to think about it in that way.
Speaker 1:I love that you got there. I love that you got there because, sure, the person who wins every game is inspirational, right? The person who's like never lost anything is like wow, that's incredible, it's so rare. And the person who loses it and gets back up and learns and figures it out and receives the wisdom and embodies the wisdom as a result of navigating a situation like that, right, that's super inspiring.
Speaker 1:You know that's like because it not just is it inspiring, it's also so hopeful. And in your story I hear my story and that's true, right, that's not just hypothetical Like I literally like, as you speak, I'm like, oh yeah, I've been there, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I got her.
Speaker 1:She's 23. She's suppressed herself. She's not dealing with grief that needs to be dealt with. She's not dealing with transformation that needs to be dealt with. She's bulldozing her way through life to bring forward the American dream. And then she does it. By the time she's 26 and it's purgatory. Yeah. And now what? Right Now she's 26 and everything's propped up and everything looks good.
Speaker 1:There's so much unhealthy behavior, unhealthy relating toxicity running through all of it and that journey of. Do I have the courage to dismantle it all and disappoint people and maybe even upset myself and the paradigms I've held up until this point? And do I have the conviction to believe in myself enough to know that I could create something different? And I'm going to give it a shot? I'm either going to create something different or I'm going to die trying. I'm going to give it everything, and that really is the beauty of that point that you described Like. There is a memory that I have where I'm in the hospital and I'm I just gave birth to my first son, who's now 13, and the doctor puts him in my arms and this wash comes over for me of just the greatest love I've ever experienced in the world. And I look over and I go oh my gosh, I don't love that man, I don't even know love.
Speaker 1:This is the first time I couldn't even love him because I didn't know love in this way, and that moment was so transformative for me and I don't really like as I look back at her, you know. 12 years later, 13 years later, I'm like I don't know how else God would have delivered that message to me in a way that I would have understood it at that time.
Speaker 2:Oh no, that that's. I was the same exact way. It took my, my son, to realize a lot of those things, and I mean that love is like an unmatched unmatched it is unmatched. And yeah, without that I feel like I could have kept going in that really wrong direction and not seeing the light, and so, yeah, that totally resonates with me, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I love that you naturally retold the story, because that's a huge part of the healing right Is the acceptance which we tapped into when you saw her in front of you, and then the rewriting of the narrative right Of like.
Speaker 2:yeah, for a period of time I was so mad at my younger self, I had all of these emotions, these judgments.
Speaker 1:Right, like I'm a smart woman. How did I do that? You know, or even you know when. When people meet you now and they go, they're baffled right. They're just like yeah.
Speaker 1:I could never see you in a situation like that, because it's so different from how and who we know you to be. And yet she really was the one that set the stage for the power. Now, the embodiment, the worthiness Yep, now I see that coming from two miles away, and it doesn't even come near me anymore because I'm so not a match for it, you know. And what a gift, right, what a relief of like oh, now I'm equipped. So how do you think this new narrative can influence your life going forward?
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like the biggest thing that I like to do is to actually share my story more with others.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like you were saying.
Speaker 2:I feel like I didn't necessarily see someone who was a leader, who was all of these other things, who was talking about something like that happening to them.
Speaker 2:I just felt crazy. So, if I can share my story and feel confident in those, all of those pieces leading up to who I am now, that hopefully somebody else can look at that and see, you know, like, oh, my gosh, like that's what's happening to me, like there is something else, like I could get to a better place or I can do something, it's not too late. And so I think that's my biggest piece has always been like trying to work through all of this to be able to share that and hopefully help other people, and that's been the biggest thing, like just getting over the shame and the like, all the things and putting her in the corner. Like I said, and you know, this has been helpful in like thinking about it in a totally different way, so that hopefully I can start sharing that and it won't feel so like icky or imposter syndrome, like it doesn't have to be that narrative.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the thing about imposter syndrome that comes up for me quite a bit, in the way that I conceptualize it and teach it, is that there's there's two types. There's the imposter syndrome of I'm this great leader and I've made some mistakes and I don't want you to know about my mistakes because then you might not think I'm as great as you think I am now. There's that kind of imposter syndrome. But there's also the other kind of imposter syndrome that she was dealing with at that point in time, which was she didn't know her greatness, so she was acting like she wasn't. That's just as damaging and inauthentic and problematic, right, because in those moments we thought of ourselves as our grief or as our inadequacies or as our deficiencies in that moment, and we were living our lives as though those were true.
Speaker 1:Right and this leader has lived in you the entire time. Right, this woman that you are now has always existed. She just had been through some life things that she didn't particularly maybe have the resources to navigate through or out of it in that moment. And I know that for sure to be true with my story, because in those early twenties, like I think, hot mess express was an understatement for me, you know, I just like what happened here, you know, and, and now when I think about her, I bring her close and I just want to hug her. She's like God, I'm so proud of you, like life literally threw so much at you and through it all, there was still this inkling that you trusted, there was still this knowing, this nagging internally of like this, isn't it for me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, had she decided that that was it for her? Oh, what a different life, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's funny that you say that too, cause, yeah, my 20 is also hot mess, it's like a hundred percent there because now, when I'm like thinking back on some of that, I've always had that nagging like what you were talking about, like there has to be better than this. This can't be it, cause I actually, um, the ex that we're speaking about, I was married, and I got married to my high school sweetheart and very different type of person, um, but we were like 21 when we got married. We just didn't know anything and he ended up, you know, cheating on me. It was very detached and so I think then I was like, well, that's, I can't do that, like I'm not, I'm better than dealing with that. And so I left because of that nagging feeling.
Speaker 2:And then I met this person and I took the narcissistic like, like the jealousy, the like controlling things as, oh, he actually cares, cause I didn't feel that from my last person it looked so different and I was like, oh, this must be, cause I didn't feel that from my last person it looked so different and I was like, oh, this must be what it's supposed to be like. Um, I had no clue, right, all like what you were saying. I didn't have the tools to like figure that out. It looked really good, you know, on the outside in the beginning, yeah, knowing. Now, like looking back, I'm like I've just had no concept of what it should look like. I really, you know, I thought that it was something totally different. And now I know, right, I can see it from a hundred miles away, but it's really interesting how that's evolved. And then again, finally, that like feeling came back of okay, no, this still isn't it, and being able to remove myself again from a situation that just wasn't serving me.
Speaker 1:Two things come up as I hear you share that. First is this is why we need your story is because there aren't. Like I don't know about you, but I didn't go through a relationships course in my teens or my early twenties. Right, Like, I saw my parents' relationship and their relationship was great and they've been married for 40 years almost Right, so like yeah same with my parents.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I had a great template Right and I also still was dealing with my own stuff and so I didn't really have a course. And so I feel like hearing your story and having more of these stories out here. If I could have heard some of this, maybe I wouldn't have had to navigate something so extreme and severe. And then the second thing is that really understanding that we're in a lifelong process and I like to refer to these as chapters in my life book, but these chapters of our life book are so important to our development and really showing us our creative power. Because the beauty of this, as I hear you talk about this, is I have not heard not even one ounce of victim in there. You share from such an empowered place.
Speaker 1:And I heard you acknowledge the shame, right, and I heard you acknowledge like, maybe, some dissatisfaction or disappointment still, or one of the things that really in my journey, I remember the moment I prepared myself to file for divorce, I told myself consciously I will not be the stereotypical single mother. I will not identify as that, I will not identify as a victim. I remember this conscious agreement to myself, right, and that really set a tone of understanding that, yes, I walked through these things and, yes, I made choices that led to some consequences and some outcomes that were very unfavorable. Yes, some people tried to warn me and I brushed them off and was stubborn in my ways and all of that Right, and I still was able to understand that I have a hand in creating how this turns out Right and that's a super powerful place to live, from the ability to go yeah, I messed up. You know, I messed up. I made some, made some choices and I'm okay and I'm still worthy, and I'm probably even more worthy now that I know the difference. I have the decision.
Speaker 2:Absolutely no. It's a super powerful place, I think, to come from. And now, the longer I keep going in this life, I'm like, oh wow, Like I get to decide, like my next move, and like it just is. Yeah, it's so empowering to be able to come from that place versus you know what is the phrase of like? Like things are happening for me, not like to me, like I can keep moving forward and I can keep deciding to change it, and it's, it's a very cool place to be now coming through all that Cause. For a long time, I felt like the opposite of that right.
Speaker 2:Like yeah, this is happening to me and there's nothing I could do. My life is just going to be like this, so now having that like in my toolbox of things you know to work with is just is so helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, beautiful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I also love what you said too, of like it's a constant journey, of like continuing to work on things, cause I feel like for a little while I also was like, oh, I did my like EMDR therapy, or I did this thing and like it was successful Like I did it, but then things still pop up, right it like it doesn't fully all go away. Certain things will trigger others and I'm like okay.
Speaker 2:So like I constantly just have to be in the space of growth and like it's going to come back up and like we're going to deal with it as it comes. And that's been an interesting kind of journey to figure out on my own too, of like, okay, yes, all those things are great, but you still have to continue working on it.
Speaker 1:It doesn't just? There's no like end really no.
Speaker 2:No, there's no end, there's no certificate.
Speaker 1:There's no award. There's no, and that's really. That's really what sets some people apart from others is the idea of I can fall in love with this process and I am just like the way I envision it is as if we're painting a picture and God I use the word God but God comes down and puts a new color on our palette and we're like, oh, I don't like that color, but if I put some other color in it and if I can blend it a little bit, I can use it and I really like that's a way that I think about life. That is like okay, well, I know more is coming, and if I know more is coming, then I can equip myself, I can prepare myself, I can stay psychologically flexible, which is a very powerful way to conceptualize the world in ourselves is not stone, I'm clay and those.
Speaker 1:This life, and especially in a co-parenting dynamic and even in a blended family dynamic, there's so many iterations, there's so much like. We got to be flexible, we got to be creative, we're going to be compassionate and empathetic and patient and understanding, because I think the real, the souls that came for real, real, deep curriculum. We came from blended families, we have blended families, our children were born into these dynamics and so we signed up for, like, the accelerated program, especially those of us that have businesses, entrepreneurial, right, we were just like give me the premium life package, please.
Speaker 2:Oh, a hundred percent yeah, we got the full meal deal yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, my gosh, amazing. So how do you feel now as we sit here?
Speaker 2:I feel good, I feel like excited. You know that I can look at it from a different perspective, where, like I said, that I can look at it from a different perspective where, like I said, I could actually start sharing these pieces to my story and it would feel right. You know what I mean. Yeah, and it was also validating to hear, like when you said I'm not coming from a place of talking about it like a victim Cause again, like that's the last thing I'm very much like you were saying of like it like a victim Cause again, like that's the last thing.
Speaker 2:I'm very much like you were saying of like I'm not going to be, like that I'm like you know, single mom power, like I got this and I just I didn't want to share from a place of that. So when you said that I was very validating of like oh, maybe I'm like closer to that than I thought of being able to share, so I feel really excited.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially because these situations it's not like these people show up with a sign that says hey, this is what you're signing up for, you know it's.
Speaker 1:It's. Not nobody in these scenarios self-included. Were we in our right mind to begin with? And that came through immediately when you visualized her. And I can look back and I've done these visualization with myself hundreds of times. Probably at this point because my relationship with my 20 year old self, 23 year old self, 27 year old self has gone through so many iterations I wasn't thinking in my right mind either at all that level of being able to go. I can be with all the feelings around her. I can have my moments of feeling disappointed, I can. My brain might try to run off in a moment and be like I wonder what would have happened if I never met that person, if I never would have said yes, if I never, you know. And then we bring it back and we go. I'm in acceptance, I'm in power, I'm going forward. This is a chapter in my story and I'm going to write it in a way that is empowering and sets me up for even better to come Right. Amazing, I love that so good.
Speaker 2:Anything else. This has been amazing, yay, gosh, hey, yeah, this has been awesome and totally, you know, a light turned on for sure of, oh my gosh, I can, I don't have to separate them anymore.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know and that feels really good. That's awesome. Thank you so much for sharing this story. I am so excited to hear it, because it's important.
Speaker 2:I am too, I'm, I'm really excited.
Speaker 1:As we complete this episode, I would love to know your insights, takeaways and feedback. You can message me on Instagram at Katie Lynnrojano or send them via email to katie at katielinrojanocom. Any products or digital downloads I mentioned can be found via the link in my Instagram bio. If you enjoyed this episode, I encourage you to share it with at least one friend and leave a five-star review so we can get these impactful dialogues into the lives of even more people. I would also like to thank my guests for their vulnerability and generosity and allowing us to learn from them and grow alongside them. Until next time, friends, let's go beyond.