BEYOND
BEYOND
Ep 25 BEYOND: Embracing Intuition in a Masculine Industry with Corinne
Have you ever felt constrained by the rigid expectations of your profession?
Today I coach Corrine, a lawyer and coach who desires to break free from the masculine norms of the legal world and embrace a more authentic and balanced approach.
Corrine’s journey from healthcare administration to law, and finally to coaching, sheds light on the profound impact of integrating feminine energy, such as intuition and vulnerability, into her practice. Through her experiences, you'll discover the immense power of authenticity in fostering trust and building deeper client relationships.
Together, Corrine and I explore the spectrum of masculine and feminine energies that define our professional and personal lives. Social conditioning often pushes us toward more masculine traits, especially under stress. Corrine’s story serves as a testament to the strength found in embracing one's femininity, even in male-dominated fields. This episode is packed with epiphanies that illuminate the journey of balancing these energies for greater success and fulfillment.
Our conversation also delves into the complex themes of self-worth and identity shifts. Corrine opens up about her transformation from single parent and caregiver to someone who prioritizes her passions and self-worth. We talk about the challenges of changing one's identity after years of living for others, and the crucial difference between self-worth and self-confidence. Corrine’s insights will inspire you to recognize and vocalize your own desires, and to have the courage to make significant life changes. Tune in to hear how small acts of rebellion and connecting with a higher power can lead to a more authentic and joyful life.
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Hello, my friend, and welcome to Beyond the personal growth podcast for the people who are healing beyond their conditioning and beyond the cycles that played out before them. My name is Katie Lynn and, with 20 years of experience in the field of psychology and human behavior, I am bringing my natural curiosity, expertise and personal life experiences here for discussions that are guaranteed to be informative, inspiring and entertaining. I'm glad you're here. Let's get started. Today on the podcast, we have Corrine Corrine. Thank you so much for being on. I'm wondering where would you like to begin?
Speaker 2:Thank, you so much for having me. I would really like to talk about feminine energy and leaning into that in my work and in the coaching I do with lawyers, and how to stay out of the default masculine energy, which is where I spent most of my career and not letting that be my default.
Speaker 1:Yeah, could you tell me a bit about your career up until this point?
Speaker 2:Sure, absolutely. I've had several careers, I've made several pivots in my life, but my most recent career and what I'm still doing, I'm a lawyer. I went to law school when I was almost 40 and I had a toddler at the time. I say I like to do things the hard way.
Speaker 1:You like to be on the accelerated program, right, like, just bring it on. That's amazing yeah.
Speaker 2:And and I had before I went to law school I worked in healthcare administration, so I have a master's in healthcare administration. So I had the idea when I went to law school that I was going to practice healthcare law, work for hospitals all a very structured corporate environment, very male dominated environment and I finished law school in 2003. So it was 21 years ago. Hard to believe. And in that time I've had roles in. I've been in a law firm, I've been in-house counsel for big academic health plan, I've been in-house counsel for a big hospital system and now I have my own firm. I was also a partner in a big firm and that was where I sort of had the epiphany that I don't want to do this anymore, because it was I said every day.
Speaker 2:It was like going, like I was crashing a fraternity party oh my gosh, that's hilarious, that visual it's like dudes and bros and just yeah, it's not an environment where I felt like I fit anymore, because I spent so much of my career trying to fit in like the men do, right, and especially when I finished school, when I first finished college and was in graduate school, all the women we wore blue suits and we wore Navy suits. We looked like men. I mean, it was even like that, like a little floppy tie that we would wear with a white shirt was really conservative, really traditional dressing, which still is how a lot of lawyers dress and still a lot of bankers, a lot of really conservative industries. But as I got more advanced in my career and I became more confident in my skills, I started thinking I don't need to act like that anymore, I don't need to do that anymore, and so I started changing really and it was really sort of an epiphany of how I wanted to live and how I wanted to work.
Speaker 2:And that's part of what my coaching is about of helping women that get out of this rigid legal mindset that you have to be a certain way or do things a certain way, because I found that I was so much more effective when I was being my authentic self and when I could let myself be feminine and bring in feminine aspects of my personality and actually use my intuition with clients and trust that, instead of trying to rigidly look at every legal analysis and use that, I was a better lawyer when I was more integrated and using some of my natural skills, which were really taught not to use. As lawyers, we're taught like everything's black and white and that's just not how the world works.
Speaker 1:And don't we know that as women? As lawyers, we're taught like everything's black and white and that's just not how the world works. And don't we know that as women, like just from a biological perspective, right, it was like that's uh, it reminds me of that saying like you're either pregnant or you're not. And I'm like whoever said that is not a woman because there's limbo there, there's a lot of gray area there.
Speaker 1:I remember with my first son, I took like six tests and the first three said no, and then this I think the first four said no and then the last two were yes, and the only reason I took the sixth one was because I couldn't believe the first one right, cause I had four other ones that were telling me otherwise. So it's very I really hear that in like the, the nature of the feminine, we really understand the in-betweens and the nuances, and not just what's said but also what's unsaid, you know, and and that access to information. That's not visible but we can feel it and we intuit it and we know it. So, and I love what you said about I was a better lawyer when I was in my feminine and really integrating both of them.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and that was really sort of where the where my career really took off is when I was able to do that. And then I presented differently to my clients and they had a different relationship with me and they knew they could trust me and they would came to me with all kinds of things and questions that sometimes were not things I could really answer, but because we developed a more close relationship and it was almost a more intimate relationship, it just brought more work. That's still how things come about, as people want to work with someone they can trust, and if you're not being your authentic self and you're not presenting as a whole person, then you're off right, everything's a little bit off For sure.
Speaker 1:So, from your perspective, what are the qualities that you bring into your work and your life as a whole that are feminine for you?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's an interesting question. Um, I think it's a lot of, like I said, about intuition, um, about vulnerability, about being open, um, and I know that those aren't specifically like feminine or male qualities, but but in a way it is right Because when, like when I was working with all lawyers that were all men people are not vulnerable, they're not telling things about themselves, they're not opening up about things that they're not sure of. It's a world where you have to have the answer to everything and be super precise, and I found that it's okay to say I don't know, or let me think about that, or I'm not sure how I feel about that. So all of those type of statements feel to me more feminine and in the way that at least I present as a lawyer, of not pretending I have all the answers and not putting on sort of a bravado that I know everything and don't question me, which is how so many lawyers operate.
Speaker 1:The qualities that you mentioned are very inherent to the feminine. The way that I see masculinity and femininity is that they exist on a spectrum for humans, and so you have the sex that you were born as, and then you have the qualities right, the gender qualities and characteristics that you move with in the world Most of them, I think, are nature and then I think you get a good amount of nurture in there too. I don't think when you were younger you had these masculine, more masculine, dominant characteristics, right? You probably learned that over time through social conditioning and through the way that you may have been parented, and also through just understanding that, like, if I want that position, then I probably need to act that way, because that's what's commended and supported and, you know, encouraged. So I'm going to do what I need to do, which is totally understandable, as I, as I hear you, share about this. I'm wondering if you have a specific question around it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my question is really how do you stay and maybe it's, maybe it's more in a neutral place and and not overly feminine, overly masculine, but how do you stay sort of balanced, like that? Because I I find like when I'm stressed about something, when I'm uncertain about something, then I move, I feel like more into a masculine energy, where I'm looking for black and white answers and it's yes or it's no, and and I feel like I'm moving away from the things that feel better to me, which is what I feel more female energy and thinking about like what can I manifest what? What mindsets can I do what? How can I be more vulnerable? How can I be more open? But which? Everything flows better for me, life works better for me in that state.
Speaker 2:But I I see all the time that I I move into a black and white. I'm like here's the money I need to make, this is what I need to accomplish, and and so that that sort of I feel the struggle is like I feel really strongly that I know this is a better place for me to be and the feminine energy helps me, but I still kind of slide back into old behaviors?
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, okay, great question. Before I answer that question, I want to add something to the, to the dialogue and the idea of the spectrum. We can be very feminine women, naturally, who are drawn to more male dominant spaces, characteristically. So my husband has reflected this back to me multiple times in our relationships and it's been like sort of this theme through my life. But I have always been one of those women that enjoys activities like sports, like competition, weightlifting and business and school Like that. Like I've always been drawn to activities and places and spaces that I think most people go oh, that's for men.
Speaker 1:And I have learned and realized over decades that part of the gift that I have in that space is my femininity. So I tried for a while to to do the pretzeling right. That's what I call like what you're talking about. I was like when we like reform ourselves and like pretzel into a different shape to try to like fit in, and it's like, oh, that's really uncomfortable and not only that, but I'm slowly dying on the inside. So not sustainable either. But as I've learned and grown, it's like, oh, actually part of my magic and my power in this space is my femininity.
Speaker 1:And what I hear in your question is like when I get stressed or when I get overwhelmed, or when fear kind of creeps in and takes the driver's seat, I move back and I sort of slide over into my masculine more and I think I heard you say that more black and white. Certain right answer, yes, and so what I hear in your question which I think is really understandable and deserves a lot of compassion is, when you're afraid, you are craving certainty. Yes, which is very human. We all do that, and that's what the masculine is inherently Part of this dance is allowing ourselves to expand in our capacity to be with uncertainty. I like that, yes, and I think that's probably the invitation for you at this point. The visual that I experienced when I experienced you is that you're like at this precipice where this is so random.
Speaker 1:So if it, resonates great if it doesn't toss it out. But you're at this precipice where you're like really blooming and like blooming outward. I see you in front of a lot of people, I see you helping a lot of people, I see you moving into this place of fantastic abundance and like just connecting and everything is flowing. And this process is going to be less about getting it right and more about how do I be with the discomfort of all of this goodness that's more than I ever could have anticipated would show up in my life.
Speaker 2:I love that, so you're having a vision.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Does it resonate? Yes, absolutely yes. I've had a few experiences recently where I've spoken to some large groups and I have something coming up where I'm going to be facilitating a retreat for some people and I do. I love that, I love being in that zone, I love making people comfortable, I love making them think out of the box and it's unfamiliar for me because I've spent most of my life in front of a computer working on contracts, drafting hundred page documents, proofreading them 3,000 times, like lawyers do.
Speaker 2:And I've always known that wasn't who I wanted to be and I knew that there was more and that was why I left that role in a big law firm. I was a partner in a firm and everyone thought I'd lost my mind when I left, because I knew that there was more and I knew that there was stuff that was going to light me up and I wanted to find it and I was willing to take that risk and I've been willing. And so you know, I've done my own law firm, I've started a coaching business and I say yes to just about everything. I'm pretty courageous. But then I do have periods where I just sort of contract right and I think, oh, can I really do this? Is this really yes? Or should I just go back to that safe thing of working on contracts and nobody bothers me? There it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is this really meant for me? Because what?
Speaker 2:I don't know, because what I guess safe, right, what's safe, what's familiar and, like you said, uncertainty of stepping into uncertainty. And I've always had jobs that were I was an employee, I was at W2, I had a gallery and I never had to think about money and I never had to budget and it just happened easily, right. And so this is a lot of work to be an entrepreneur and have your own business. It's a lot of work and there's a lot of uncertainty, which is just not how I ever saw myself. Yeah, and I sometimes talk myself into this new reality and everything's great and then I'll go.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, yes. So there's a few things that are coming through as I hear you speak. The first is do you have a connection to a higher power? I do Okay, okay, great.
Speaker 1:The other aspect about the feminine that falls right in alignment with what you just said is business, historically, is designed for and by men, and the reason I love to support female founders and female entrepreneurs is because I see us excelling in this space and we will excel in it when we play the game differently, which can be really tricky in real time. Part of the way that we play the game differently is we really co-create with a higher power. So I love when you said I was a partner at a law firm and I left and everybody thought I was crazy and it was like that's the feminine. The feminine is like I know, I know there is something different for me out there. I know that this is not it for me and I must go create it. I must go see what it is, I must go explore it.
Speaker 1:Right, that's so feminine because that knowing that's like the tap from my higher power, that's like God being like hey, I've got something else for you, you know, and the qualities that you're talking about. These feminine qualities are what give you a leg up in these spaces. I'm wondering if there's any sort of resonance or like sneaky belief around I have to get it right. Oh, of course that's the thing. Yes, so that's the thing. That's almost like the antithesis to the feminine.
Speaker 2:That's been a lifelong fight.
Speaker 1:Perfectionism yeah, when we can transcend that to the best of our abilities. It's a I think it's more of a like practice, you know, in way of being for a while before we officially transcend it. But I would love for you to play with the idea of instead of getting it right, how do I be effective? Because those two are not always the same Right?
Speaker 2:So, as I say that what comes up for you, oh, I'm thinking back on a blog post I wrote recently about perfectionism and because I know as lawyers it's just something we really struggle with. Is it beaten into us in law school? You cannot make mistakes, your writing has to be perfect, your documents have to be perfect, you have to give the exact, right answer. Here's the liability and the risk of it, and I think there was something appealing about that just from my lifelong struggle with perfectionism. Right, I want to do everything right.
Speaker 2:And I mean that's from being a little girl like straight A's was like a big reward in my family my parents were really excited about. That was like being a good student being accomplished, and so my whole career has been like racking up accomplishments, racking up degrees. I mean I have a bachelor's in science and business, I have a master's in healthcare administration and I'm a fellow in the american college of healthcare executives. I'm a you know, a lawyer. College of Healthcare Executives. I'm a lawyer, I'm an adjunct professor. It's like you pile on all these achievements thinking that's going to make you so great, and now it's just like a nice paper collection. It was an expensive paper collection.
Speaker 1:It matters, yeah, and I also see you evolving and this is probably a really pivotal point for you in terms of identity, like, who am I, who am I really, without the papers, without the accomplishments, without all of the speaking and the people that I help and serve? Who am I and what am I about and what are my values? From your perspective, how would you transcend perfectionism?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a constant struggle to just letting go of things, right. And I think, like you're saying about who am I and where am I going, is so much of what I was doing. I was a single parent. I didn't have help from my son's father, so I had to make money to raise my kid and make sure that he was successful and he could do things, and I was also a caregiver for my parents. They both my dad had Alzheimer's, my mom had dementia a different type of dementia and so all of my life was like taking care of my parents, taking care of my son, taking care of my clients, and so just stepping away from that role as a partner in the firm two years ago has been a constant exploration for me about who am I, what do I really like, what really lights me up?
Speaker 2:For me, part of breaking that perfectionism has really come a lot through coaching and talking with other women, when I recognize it in them and to say you don't need to be perfect, you're perfect as you are and what you've done, and then I can tell myself the same thing, right? Yeah, it's a lot of undoing, right? I just turned 60. So I've lived this way for a long time, oh my gosh. Yes, and so undoing it and going into new patterns is it's been fun, but it is a constant struggle. My main reason for wanting to do the coaching was really to help other women, cause I see other women that have struggled with thinking they can't be a parent and have a successful career, like taking a back step or like second guessing themselves, and so that for me it has been really fun, because nurturing other people makes me feel better.
Speaker 1:Yes, in this moment in your life. How many people are you taking care of directly? Nobody, just me. Is this the first time? First time in my life, I have a dog. That's it Okay. So this is the identity shift.
Speaker 2:Yes, the only thing I want needs for me that pay for his cell phone, but otherwise he's self-sufficient, he's 25.
Speaker 1:Great job, that's amazing. Congratulations, that's a really beautiful thing. I have a 13 year old, a three year old, and I pray that I can say that in you know 10 years, 10, 12 years about my oldest son because that's really what we're here to do.
Speaker 2:right Is grow them up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is an identity shift because you spend your whole life getting them there. I don't have to do anything. I can do what I want to do.
Speaker 2:Yes, so this ties into your worth.
Speaker 1:There's a diff, there's a distinction between self-worth and self-confidence and the confidence you have right. If I I say, can you write me a document, you're going to be like, absolutely, I'm going to write you the best document you've ever seen in your life, like everything is going to be where it's supposed to be right, like there's this external component and skillset. That is the confidence. The worth is the internal and the worth is what I hear coming through when you describe that moment of contraction yes, can I, can I do this? And what I hear under that a little bit is can I do this? Just for me?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how does that?
Speaker 2:feel for you, especially like when I think about like people in my life and they see what I'm doing and they're like why would you do that? Why are you not just practicing law? Like they don't understand. And I think that's a struggle a lot of entrepreneurs have is, other people in their lives don't understand what they're doing. And why, yes, why would you do that? Yeah, yeah and then yeah. So it's hard to stay in that place of self-worth and I can do this because I want to do it. This is what I want to do.
Speaker 1:This is what makes me feel alive, cause that's not something you go around saying to people when they ask you about Okay, so I'm going to, I'm going to pause you and I want you to go back and say all of that again, but use the word I. What word was I using? It's hard for you to stay in that space and be misunderstood when people ask you. So there's this kind of push away with it, of like kind of over here, when really it can be hard. Like I remember when I first started and I left my nice paying position as a single mom and my parents looked at me like are you okay? You know like what? Like you have a wonder, you have a great paying job. Like you've got healthcare, you've got all this stuff, like what are you doing?
Speaker 1:And it was very hard because I was still getting my legs under me, right, I was in the rows of that identity shift and now it's not even a thing for me. It's like why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't I? It's what I was made to do, it's what God created me for. Like how could I deny that? That would be so silly of me. I would feel kind of really out of integrity and really out of alignment and I don't stand for either of those things. So, but that's the thing, right? It's like I feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:I don't like to use that word. I don't say I very often.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm wondering if you brought it in and you really connected with it. You were like, oh, I feel uncomfortable. Yeah, that's interesting and beautiful and I don't have to if I don't want to. I could literally say, because you have the response. You told me the response as well. You cause you have the response. You told me the response as well. You said it brings me alive, it makes me alive. Yeah, I love it. Why wouldn't I go explore? Why wouldn't I go see what's here? Have you seen this world? How big and amazing and incredible expansive it is? Like there's terrible things, there's an amazing, incredible things. Why wouldn't I go adventure out there? Exactly, you know, and I'm.
Speaker 2:I would love to invite you to give yourself that gift of you yeah yeah it's funny, I was just talking with someone that I just ordered the book the artist's way, have you?
Speaker 2:yes, so I've never even heard of it, and but one of the things that they were saying is like to take yourself on a date, like to do something just for you, what you want to do, or like a nice restaurant, like oh my gosh, that feels so indulgent. Yeah, and so I just got the book I'm gonna start reading about. But so I'm starting to think about, yes, doing more things for me. Think what does kareem like, what do I like? Uh, instead of trying to fit into all these other roles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like life is saying hey, kareem, you can, you can build your own lane, you can make your own lane. You know, and it's so fascinating because where I sit, right Like we just met, so I don't know that much about you, but from where you sit, I'm like you've only ever always been a trailblazer you know Like so.
Speaker 2:Oh, I don't feel like that. No, I feel like I did a lot of things to play it safe. I feel I made a lot of decisions to play it safe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and, and maybe in decision is to play it safe, yeah, yeah, and, and maybe in, maybe in your own way, you know, especially if safety had to do with significance and access to resources, then that would then exactly for sure, you know, and now it's like you really get to create yourself for you.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, and I say that I've played it safe and done things that. But probably if you talk to my friends or people have known me a long time, that was not what they would say.
Speaker 1:Sure, that's why I'm like you kind of did, maybe in some ways, but like going to law school with a toddler is not.
Speaker 1:I don't know if that's my idea of safety, you know, but it's also something that I fully would understand. It's it's probably an idea I would bring to my husband and be like, hey, I want to go get my PhD and we have a three-year-old, like why not? You know, and I really resonate with I don't want to call it being the black sheep, because the black sheep is kind of shunned, but it really is like being the giraffe in a herd of elephants. Nothing against the elephants, it's nothing against anyone particularly, and it comes with its own unique challenges. Tall poppy syndrome. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And I feel like your higher power is coming right for that. Yeah, like it's coming to just obliterate that. Like, the harder you fight it, the more resistance and contraction and you'll experience. Yeah, it's sort of like one of the biggest lessons my dad gave me when I was little is he would take me on roller coasters. He would always tell me Katie, you'll enjoy this experience so much more if you just let go. Oh, really, yeah, he said, just let go. And it was so hard for me because how terrifying is that? Right, like I'm strapped to this thing that's flying through the air. That's the last thing I think of is letting go and there was so much life wisdom in that for me, yeah, and I feel like that's the opportunity for you is like yes, keep your systems. Yes, keep your structure. I'm a huge fan of systems and structure in service to ease and flow and simplicity and deliverables. All of that, and throw out the control. Yeah, throw out the perfectionism, because perfection doesn't even exist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's interesting that your father took you to talk on a roller coaster. My parents would never have done that.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I mean I feel like so much of my upbringing really informed who I am right like. I was a first generation American. My parents were immigrants and they grew up in Germany and England during the war, during World War II, and they had hard lives in their childhoods very hard, and so they thought that a lot of things I wanted to do as an American child and teenager were very frivolous. They wouldn't let me try out to be a cheerleader, like that's ridiculous. Why would you do that? Focus on your studies.
Speaker 2:And so that was always ingrained, right, like anything, even doing anything fun was like why would you do that? Yes, you need to be studying, you need to accomplish, you need to have these achievements. Everything was very achievement driven, um, from a very, very, very young age and so, um, and they both passed now. So I I feel like I can say I don't have to do that anymore, you know, don't have to accomplish that. But it really is so deeply ingrained and that's been. Really my biggest struggle is to get rid of that and I do like little rebellious things, like I got a little tiny tattoo like they would freak out at a tattoo.
Speaker 2:They were so conservative and it was like that's, it doesn't even count, that's so small, like. I know, but it's just yes, me leaving corporate world, doing my own thing. And it's a little star. And the thing is, it's my North Star, follow my own North Star, follow my own intuition, and so I really I literally have it on my wrist as like a reminder that you can do things differently, you can change your path, you can reinvent and do things. Because it is so deeply ingrained, I mean, it's really hard to change.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it doesn't have to be. It doesn't have to be yeah, because the question that comes up as I hear you share this is if you aren't making progress and if you aren't achieving anything, are you still lovable, right, yeah, are you? Yeah, I'm still me, absolutely yeah, and do you still matter?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's just yeah, it's a faulty logic this perfectionism and achievement orientation and I do feel it's like, yeah, it's just jumping off. That's why people thought I was crazy leaving my job right as a partner, because this was like the pinnacle of your career. You're at the height of your career. I was like, eh, I don't like this.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, and you probably inspired so many people without even realizing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. People tell us like how did you do that? Why did you do that? We don't trying to understand it, because a lot of people are in roles that look good on paper, right, sound good, and they're not enjoying it yeah they feel, um, like I felt just trapped into something, that this is what you have to do and there's never anything you have to do and there's never anything you have to do. Right, you can change it at any point.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. So if you were going to decide in this moment to change one thing about your thinking, what would it be?
Speaker 2:I think I think I like what you said about the connection with the higher power and really connecting that more with where I'm going next and feeling confident than trying to have a successful right In quotes law practice or successful coaching business, because it will come and it happens organically if I'm happy and I'm in flow and things are doing right, and over-focusing on outcomes is what gets me in an unhappy space.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it really is. I love to tell my clients that you know, when a woman is in business, business is like checkers and she needs to play chess if she's going to be fulfilled. Right, same board, different game, different strategy. And that's what I hear in the change that you are planning to make is that, like, I'm gonna play this differently. The outcomes are important. Right, like the outcomes are important, of course you want to be successful. Of course you want to define success for yourself specifically, so you're not aiming into the abyss, you know, or chasing a carrot, but you also really understand that it's less about the objective and more about who you become as you pursue that objective as you move towards that Right, and that's what I hear in this.
Speaker 2:When I first started my coaching business, I had hired someone to do my social media for me, and somebody who was my coach years ago called me and she goes I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but it doesn't seem like you. The stuff that's being posted, it's not someone else is doing it, it's just not resonating. That's just be yourself, just people want to hear you and your story and your authenticity and your sense of humor, and none of that's coming through. They. Well, I guess I could stop paying them because, yes, yeah, but it was interesting because it was. It took someone that knew me really well to say that right, to say, for sure, that's not you. What are you doing? What do you really want? I was like, yeah, yeah, that's right, it takes someone to reflect it back to us, right, and that's why your podcast is so powerful and working with a coach is so powerful, because we can't see it all ourselves. It's really so helpful to have someone else's viewpoint.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you for that, and I I deeply agree Like reflection, powerful reflection, insightful reflection is the biggest gift you know, and I really do believe we need each other, we absolutely need each other. What a generous thing to do is to receive and give reflection, you know, really honest, heart-centered reflection, and I'm so excited, kareem, for where this is going to take you and this adventure. I mean, it's incredible, you're incredible, it's a reflection of you. So, thank you, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really so helpful.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I'm grateful to hear that. Thank you for being open. Thank you for your generosity, because I know that this episode is going to support so many people who listen in on it, so I'm really grateful that we could be generous and of service in this way. It's been a pleasure. As we complete this episode, I would love to know your insights, takeaways and feedback. You can message me on Instagram, at katielinrojano, or send them via email to katie at katielinrojanocom. Any products or digital downloads I mentioned can be found via the link in my Instagram bio. If you enjoyed this episode, I encourage you to share it with at least one friend and leave a five-star review so we can get these impactful dialogues into the lives of even more people. I would also like to thank my guests for their vulnerability and generosity in allowing us to learn from them and grow alongside them. Until next time, friends, let's go beyond.