BEYOND
BEYOND
Episode 14 Healing the Hustle: Overcoming Self-Doubt and Financial Strain with Saphire
What happens when a young entrepreneur repeatedly pours her heart, soul, and finances into business ventures, only to face financial scarcity and self-doubt?
Join me as I coach Sapphire, a spirited serial entrepreneur who has weathered the turbulent landscape of launching multiple businesses in her 20s. We explore the relentless cycle of heavy investment, financial strain, and the inevitable return to entrepreneurial dreams. Sapphire works through her personal battles with self-trust, the pressures of overachievement, and the stress of balancing ambition with basic survival.
The emotional terrain of self-worth and expression forms a crucial part of our work in this session. Sapphire opens up about her discomfort with asking for financial support, stemming from deep-seated feelings of being burdensome, a narrative shaped by childhood experiences. We traverse the journey of redefining personal value beyond monetary success, emphasizing the importance of setting boundaries and seeking external validation from loved ones. This exploration provides profound insights into overcoming psychological barriers and fostering a healthy relationship with self-worth in the business world.
Fear of causing harm, particularly in coaching and mental health contexts, is another vital aspect of our conversation. Sapphire's vulnerability offers a unique perspective on the anxiety of being perceived as narcissistic or harmful. We delve into the necessity of creating safe spaces for feedback, the significance of self-forgiveness, and the importance of viewing mistakes as opportunities for growth. Wrapping up, we encourage listeners to reflect on these insights, share their feedback, and become part of our community dedicated to personal and entrepreneurial growth.
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Hello, my friend, and welcome to Beyond the personal growth podcast for the people who are healing beyond their conditioning and beyond the cycles that played out before them. My name is Katie Lynn and, with 20 years of experience in the field of psychology and human behavior, I am bringing my natural curiosity, expertise and personal life experiences here for discussions that are guaranteed to be informative, inspiring and entertaining. I'm glad you're here. Let's get started.
Speaker 2:Today on the podcast we have Sapphire. Sapphire, welcome. I'm so grateful to have you on my pleasure.
Speaker 3:Yes, I'm excited.
Speaker 2:Where would you like to begin? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3:So I've been launching a business over the last six months, a coaching business, and it's probably like my third or fourth like business I've launched over the last. I'm kind of like a serial entrepreneur ever all through my 20s and I kind of like a serial entrepreneur, I've altered my 20s and I kind of like tend to kind of go all in and then get myself kind of in the scarcity spot where I'm not really earning money for my business. So then I just feel kind of stuck and scared and in scarcity. So then I end up having to like take a job and it takes me like completely out of the business and then I'll do that for a year or two and then by the time I come back to my business it no longer resonates and I like relaunch a different kind of version of that business or an entirely new business. And so I've kind of been on the cycle like I think like three or four times and like all of the, there's like a definitely a through line between all the businesses. It's all around like authenticity, it's all using my skills in like video and photo and storytelling and stuff like that. I'm in coaching and yeah, it's all around like your story and your truth and like all these kinds of things. So like there is a through line and it probably it has been building on itself. But I'm just like really ready for this time, like to be able to make the income and impact I want to have. And I'm just like really tired of like I've scraped by through my entire 20s and I'm just like really really done, doing that. I just want to step into a new paradigm.
Speaker 3:I have also like heavily invested in myself and that was part of like the problem.
Speaker 3:So, so to speak, early on, I think I invested like too much too soon, too fast in some coaches that didn't really. I just feel like maybe it was a bit predatory on their end. Like knowing how young I was and knowing how little experience I had and that was my first business and all these kinds of things I felt a little bit preyed on, like looking back, and so for a while that really turned me off to the coaching industry as a whole and I've kind of recently been coming back to it and finding value in it again and finding coaches that resonate more with me. But yeah, so there's like a ton of debt from that and like a lack of self-trust around making investment decisions for myself, choosing coaches and choosing support, and how much do you go all in and like go straight to Lulu on yourself, and how much do you like be realistic and have a part-time job and do all you know what I mean, like, whatever the thing is? So, yeah, yeah, I think that's it in a nutshell.
Speaker 2:I mean, I love your vulnerability and I love your honesty in this, because there is a lot to be said for being in air quotes like new, right and air quotes again, young in business. And there's a lot to be said for being in air quotes like new right.
Speaker 2:And it's again young in business and there's a lot to be said for wanting it to work like that fine line. I love that you said being you know, going all in on your DeLulu and also like really staying in a, in a space of I'm keeping myself safe, I'm providing for myself, I make sure that I have my basic needs met and all of those. So these are all things that if, if we choose to step into entrepreneurship, especially in our twenties, we're these lessons come quick. So I heard you say you know the, the scarcity comes in or has come in. What does that sound like for you internally?
Speaker 3:It usually shows up as like honestly, a high sort of like feels like high cortisol, high drive, like I just got to do this, this, this, that, and today I'm just going to keep going all it Like. It kind of shows up as this overachieving over, like producing push, push, push, control, control, control. Like I've got to figure out how to get a client or I've got to figure out how to do X, y, z, so I almost go into like emergency zone or emergency state of like I've got to fix this and put a lot of pressure on myself to like then make a sale or make something happen.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I'm hearing pressure, not just hearing pressure, but also I can feel it. It's just like a physical body pressure. So pressure, stress, cortisol. The other word that I heard that was really interesting for me is fix.
Speaker 3:I heard that was really interesting for me is fix as if right, what do we fix? We fix broken broken.
Speaker 2:So yeah that I made a note of that. And what is the number in your mind right? The number that is like if I can create this number in my business, then I will know that I can take care of myself, I will know that the business is sustainable. What is that number?
Speaker 3:I feel like there's like there's the immediate number, which for me would be like, let's say, 5k months. I'd pretty much I'd be like more than taken care of, like probably. I think my expense is around 4,500 a month, so like 5K is like I'm doing it, but like maybe still afraid it's gonna like you know, dip or whatever. Yeah, yeah, my goal that makes me feel like wow, I like did it, quote, unquote is like 250K a year kind of situation yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:what does 250, 250k a year take, according to you?
Speaker 3:I think it definitely takes a high level of trust and worthiness in myself and like being able to really like take up space and charge what I need to charge. I think that's a big struggle for me Always has been. It's just like way undercharging for my services. I think just like a high level of integrity and like showing up, which I know can be like kind of a buzzword, but like I think it's doing my mindset and beliefs work every day, which I do. Like I'm also really into somatic practices, so like staying up on like breathwork and things that keep me like really grounded.
Speaker 3:Honestly, like I've been really proud of like how I've shown up over the past I mean entire six months, but just the past week I like flew out to Montana for our family emergency and our family's like in complete chaos and like I've still been showing up at a really high level for both my family and my business, which has been a huge testament to like the work that I've put in to get here, and so I think even flying out here, risking the part-time job that I had, like this to get here, and so I think even flying out here, risking the part-time job that I had, like this is more in line with my values to like be with my family during this time, and I want to be able to travel, I want to be able to work from wherever, and so I do feel like making those kinds of decisions where it's like this is in line with my values, not necessarily.
Speaker 3:My bank account has really worked for me this week. I'm making more progress and getting closer to signing my first high ticket client than I have been in the whole six months, so I think that's been kind of interesting too. I hope that answered the question.
Speaker 2:I mean yes and I love that you're seeing this that the values are such an important foundational component for decision-making important foundational component for decision-making. The level of discernment that's required for business can only be really accessed and executed consistently and effectively when we know ourselves Like the amount of discernment that we have is in direct correlation to self awareness. So the fact that you're you're seeing this and you're like, oh, there's a difference, right, is super important.
Speaker 2:And I love that you, because it also takes a lot of courage to be able to make a decision like that.
Speaker 2:This is one of those components of business and entrepreneurship that gets kind of hidden, because it's not so out front, it's not a tangible thing that you experience in terms of like I have proof that I can show you. This is happening. It's more internal, and it's that process of oh my gosh, if I step away and I change my focus, even for a few days, to family, will my business be okay, will my work be okay? And so I want to acknowledge that in your process, because it's a very mature decision to make and a very self-honoring decision to make, and so I want to make sure that I'm pointing it out so your brain can collect it as evidence that you can be trusted.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because sometimes, just as a story, as a story in background, because our subconscious love stories is, you know, the initiations into entrepreneurship can be really intense and I feel like my sentiment is, if you want to be on the fast track accelerated program to personal development, get into entrepreneurship and get into a romantic partnership and watch everything, super accelerated program, really learning these lessons, and also that the real dance is can I learn these lessons and be in this curriculum without personalizing it and and making meaning that actually suppresses myself, like I can't be trusted, or maybe this isn't meant for me, or maybe I'm not built for this, or maybe this won't be possible, or maybe I just meant to get a job right, which there's nothing wrong with getting a job. So, as we go forward in this conversation, what is the high ticket client? What's that price point for you?
Speaker 3:So I want to be charging. I think to meet my 250K goal would be higher. But just to start as a starting point, I want to charge like about 5K per client, so it's 6,500 is what the price would be. But then there's like an action, so it'd be 6,500 in full. But if they like take action earlier, I have like a discount for that which brings it down to 5k. So somewhere in that 5k.
Speaker 2:Sure, okay. How does it feel if I say, sapphire, ask me for $6,500 right now, so go ahead and ask me for $6,500.
Speaker 3:Um, hey, can I have $6,500? How does it? Yeah, okay, okay. Yeah, okay, so I love this exercise ridiculous yeah, yes, yes, ridiculous, because I think just like yeah, it's a lot of money, and like we don't know each other, we don't have that. Maybe established necessity, obviously context and everything too, but yeah sure, I heard you say it's a lot of money.
Speaker 2:We don't have rapport context, we don't have relationship. We literally just met what 17 minutes ago? So now let's say we're going to play imagination. Are you a visual person? Okay, okay, great. So imagine you have your dream website up. This program, this high ticket program that you have, is on there and it's available. And not only is it available, but anybody who finds you can come to your website and click a button that says buy now and they sign up for 6,500 pay in full when they click that button. So let's say you're out with friends and you're having a wonderful time. Your phone dings, pull it out and you look at it and there's a notification that somebody who you don't know, you've never met, just purchased entry to your high ticket offer and you have $6,500 paid in full. How does that feel in your body for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like instant relief and like joy and excitement.
Speaker 2:Amazing. What's the first thing you want to say out loud after you see that notification? Sweet, yes, yeah. So what's the difference between scenario one, where you ask me for 6,500, and scenario two?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Just the me having to ask for it and me making the first kind of move so to speak. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what about that? Has some charge to it for?
Speaker 3:you, I guess it's. I feel like it's putting me in a position of what comes to mind is begging, like the asking means I'm taking and I need from you, yeah, versus someone just like offering it and being like here's $500.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm taking, I'm asking something of them were you allowed to ask for what you needed when you were younger? How did that work?
Speaker 3:out. I do really struggle with asking for what I need. It's not that it wasn't allowed. I think it was like subconsciously not allowed, like it was said it was allowed and it was. You know, of course you can come to me, of course you can do these things. But I think certain times when I did, what I got back was either fixing, which is funny, because now I do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that word comes up again.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, or minimizing yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what's interesting and I want to know if this resonates for you. The sense that I get is the sentiment is like I don't want to be a burden. Does that resonate for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think. I don't know if the word burden does, but yeah it's like I don't want to. I mean, I've definitely like an over overcoming people, pleasing type person Like.
Speaker 3:I just yeah, I don't want to be an incomplete, don't want to be too much. Um, as a kid I was labeled high maintenance as a joke or a hotel mic, okay, uh-huh, I was like the too sensitive, too much, uh, archetype kind of Um. So, yeah, I think it's like yeah, I don't want to ask too much, or burden, I mean, burden is the word for it. I just think that word wasn't ever used.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love that you're putting your own language to it. That's just the sense that I get, and I would prefer your own language over it. So how would you describe you now?
Speaker 3:So how would you describe you now? I would say now I'm in a place where I'm like really embodying a lot of the like entrepreneurship and self-development growth. I've been learning over the last 10 years Like I feel like I do know how to take up more space. I would say I'm not like still not the best, but like I practice it regularly and like I'm learning and actively doing it a lot more, setting boundaries more, speaking up more when I need like yeah, when I realize that I need something and just like holding that uncomfortable space that I've learned how to do for myself. I'm like starting to be able to do it in family or in relationship, like in other spaces that are more difficult.
Speaker 3:I've like really gotten good at like validating myself, being there for myself, feeling all the feelings like um like really have my own back in a way that I haven't over the last 10 years. Um, and I do have like. Obviously, self-trust issues still come up, but I have a lot more self-trust than I have in the past. Um, so it's like I definitely feel at a new level of like worth and just like um well-being and safety and security with myself yeah um and yeah, and it's like the money is the piece that will tell me.
Speaker 3:I think I've also made it a bit of a sign in my mind that like the universe is going to respond also when I really am there, or like it's going to happen when I'm like I don't know. It's going to be like a sign that I've like completed a level. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, proof proof yeah, yeah, yeah, is that true?
Speaker 3:probably not. Yeah, no, because they're not necessarily linked. We don't know. I can't know for sure that they're linked sure always be other reasons why I don't earn money that could be disconnected from my self-worth and yeah, how well I'm showing up like I could be doing everything at a really high level. It doesn't mean necessarily that like that I'm gonna get you know yeah yeah, um what determines your worth?
Speaker 3:I think money does on a level that's what I was hearing success and money really does yeah yeah, yeah, and I think that's always been from a young age to like achieve. It used to be more achievement. Like I wanted to be on broadway, I wanted to be in the movies, like, yeah, like the star um, yeah, but but for what reasons?
Speaker 3:I think to be seen, like it's always been a deep desire for me, uh, and be understood, yeah, and yeah, like be seen, be understood. There's definitely like a recognition from my parents piece that I've been unpacking recently of, like I want them to know that I'm successful, I want them to know that I've made it, I want them to know that I can take care of myself and even, like, take care of them eventually, like I want them to like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What's the power in you being seen?
Speaker 3:I think I feel like a relief when I'm vulnerable, Like I've always been like a vulnerable person. I think I feel something I discovered was that like there is a power that I get from taking away. Like no one can like hold anything over me if I've already like put it all out there. Like no one can like hold anything over me if I've already like put it all out there. Like no one can be like yeah, absolutely, there's a power in being like completely an open book.
Speaker 3:So that like yeah, I can't be like hurt by anything someone says about me or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure, what I'm hearing in that is ownership, like if I know myself at that level and I can live in my fullest expression at that level, then I'm essentially unstoppable because anything you say or do or judge me for has already been aired out in my own consciousness. Yep, yep, okay. So the thing that I'm hearing is there's been a centering of money. Your worthiness, your success, sort of the measuring of how you're doing in life, is tied to money. That's one thing. The second thing I'm noticing, which I think, is more of a mind I call them a mind knot which is like it's not actually true for you, but the mind has established this knot to keep you looping in circles, right, like a knot goes nowhere really.
Speaker 2:It's tied in on itself and the knot that I'm hearing is that it's about you. It's tied in on itself and the not that I'm hearing is that it's about you. Because in our conversation so far, in the questions that I've asked like what is your worthiness? What determines your worthiness? Why is it important that you're seen, the responses I'm getting are about you, when I actually have a deeper sense and correct me if I'm wrong that if I paid you Sapphirehire $6,500, you'd probably change my life. I would probably walk away with a lot of good, a lot of important lessons, a lot more self-awareness, a lot more capacity for expression, improving how I tell stories, when I tell my life would probably be a lot better than it was before I paid you the $6,500.
Speaker 3:Do you?
Speaker 2:think that's accurate.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think so. I've gotten like really powerful results from my clients that I even have trouble being like okay, but that wasn't me Like. You must be doing something else on the side.
Speaker 2:So that's important, because the other thing that I hear and and this is I really want you to hear this, but I want everybody who's listening to hear this as the kid who came in like wanting to be seen highly sensitive, very attuned to themselves in the environment, it has a very artist flavor to themselves in the environment.
Speaker 2:It has a very artist flavor, the whole intention and purpose of the artist is to make people think, to make people feel, and so one of the most powerful tools for the artist, interestingly enough, is that, like the artist usually has the muse but, both exist in in the same. They're both connected, like in the same breath. The artist is the muse, the muse is the artist embodied. And so when I hear um, I wanted to be on Broadway, I wanted to be a performer, I wanted to be heard, seen. All of that I heard. My presence and expression is medicine. Something happens.
Speaker 2:Something happens when I'm present? Yes, what happens from your perspective?
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, joy, definitely. Like when I'm thinking of when I was a kid, like people loved to watch me on stage for whatever reason, like, um, I was good at it. Um, as far as like more in the present day, like I think, yeah, people feel really safe and seeing like it's kind of like the same medicine that I need, I'm giving back right. Like I create a really safe place. That where people feel like, oh, wow, I haven't been right. Like, yes, I create a really safe place. That where people feel like, oh, wow, I haven't been able to talk about that before. Or, yeah, people feel heard, but it feels authentic too and it feels real and it doesn't feel like there's anything being put on. Like it's very freeing, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, is your expression and your visibility a service to others?
Speaker 3:Yes, I think so.
Speaker 2:When you engage in the world, are you making the world a better place.
Speaker 3:I think so yeah.
Speaker 2:How does that feel to be in ownership of that it?
Speaker 3:feels good. I think there's a part of me that's like there's something in there that's a little unstable with it, right. Or like unsteady with it. Yeah, um, yeah, it's like fear of that ownership piece, because people who own that they're absurd or like if you own too much, then you're I don't know a narcissist, or yeah I don't know like taking up too much space in a bad way. You know like yes Thinking. I'm hot shit, I'm like yeah, the audacity. Yes, the audacity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, totally yes, the audacity. So this is the third time I'm hearing this flavor in our dialogue and it's like this real fear of if I take it too far I'll hurt someone. I might become the person that took advantage of me. Yeah, yeah, does that land for you?
Speaker 3:yes, for sure, for sure, yeah yeah or just become a harmful person at all. Yeah, like I think I'm such a like, on such a mission to not do harm, but like doing harm severely distresses me when, like yeah, yes, and it has held me back a lot in coaching.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So because I've worked with what I feel like are kind of shady coaches or people who've taken advantage of people. I often feel like underqualified to do what I do and wish that I could afford more like licensing and certifications and more education, because I just want to be like super. I just don't want to fuck anyone up, yeah, and I just like and especially like I am working with trauma and like people who've been through like really hard shit and like I just really respect, um, the mental health industry too, and like I just I want to do right by people, you know yeah, so yeah, so the do no harm.
Speaker 3:The fear of doing harm makes perfect sense. Yeah it makes.
Speaker 2:I really, really hear this and I actually hear care. I hear a lot of care, yeah yeah, this is just for anybody who's listening. Now, sapphire and I are diving into shadow work. This is what we would call shadow work.
Speaker 2:It's the sort of that underbelly of like fear and also the invitation for ownership. Because when we look at this realistically, in any field, in any position, as a human, do we have the capacity for harm? Yeah, we do, we do. So let's say it happens. A coaching session is had. The client comes back and says Sapphire, I don't feel well, this is happening, I feel harmed, I feel taken advantage of. I feel X, Y and Z fill in the blank. How do you move in response to that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I would definitely let them know that. I'm so glad they brought this to me and I really want to hear them out. And can I ask questions, maybe find out some more, figure out where they're at? I think it'd be like, yeah, creating questions, maybe find out some more, figure out where they're at. I think it'd be like, yeah, creating a support plan for them. Like what, what would feel good to you moving forward. Do you want to? You know, continue working together, not continue working together? Can I help you find support outside of my coaching? You know, like really making it up to them and making sure they have their autonomy and deciding what's best for them and that they know themselves best and making sure that that's reiterated. And, yeah, and just being like a really open, safe space for that kind of feedback Beautiful yeah.
Speaker 2:In that response. I don't hear any gaslighting, I don't hear any cruelty gaslighting. I don't hear any cruelty. I don't hear any blame, I don't hear any rejection.
Speaker 3:So what in the mind, in your internal dialogue, continues to reinforce that you might be a bad person. I think through Now I'm going to get emotional, that's okay. That's okay. Yeah, I think part of my healing process has been looking at my own shadow. I guess you could say and like, yeah, the things that I did, especially when I was like acutely suffering from trauma, like I definitely behaved in ways that I'm not proud of and like and caused harm and it's like been powerful to own that and and look at that.
Speaker 3:But I do think I just have like still a lot of fear of doing that again, even though I obviously wouldn't do the same thing. But just like, like I, I remember I like hurt someone and had no idea I did it yeah, like for such a long time, and the fact that I could be that like naive and, um, also just like blind to my own impact, like I think really scares me. Like I think we can all be so delusional sometimes and just like so in our own world, like as humans, we're just like. We're just like so fallible to like living in our own narrative. Yeah, and I think what scares me about entrepreneurship too, is that like you have to create these narratives, to like keep yourself going and you have to like spin everything in a certain way, to like keep your mindset in check and all this stuff. And I think that I get scared that I'm gonna go too far that way and just like, yeah, lose sight of, um, what's actually happening in reality, or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, like the fear of of harming again, especially because I really, first of all, I appreciate your expression in this and and really going there, because this is a big deal, you know, I hear an opportunity to forgive yourself and I also hear an opportunity to create, to create a different. My brain sees it as like a system to create a different system so that, um, you can mitigate a bit more. You know, and and I see it visually as like when you go bowling and you put the bumpers right, it's like where are my bumpers at? And so, sapphire, are you a bad person? I?
Speaker 3:don't think so. No, again, I always say think though. Do you notice that too, like I?
Speaker 2:was like I don't think so. Yeah, yeah. So are you a bad person? No, okay, and if you did something that was in air quotes bad, how would you handle it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I feel like I have a lot of um, tools and capacity to hear that feedback and hold space for someone else. And, like I love repairs, I think repair is like super powerful so.
Speaker 2:I would try to use it as an opportunity for that. Yeah, and also the grace, the grace and the compassion for self and others of like. Oh my gosh, I was young, ignorant adolescent growing up. Because, contrary to what society tells us, we're not fully adults until we're like 28. Yeah, 26, according to brain development. Totally 25 to 28 is kind of the sweet spot where most of us are still yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So the grace and the compassion for like self and also gratitude for the fact that like that shaped you so that you now have the awareness. Oh, so, like, the most dangerous person in the room is the person who's ignorant to their own power. Yeah, because they have no idea how their impact is rippling out into the world. So now that instance turned on a light bulb for you. Oh, I had no idea, and now I know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what are some ways that you could mitigate going forward?
Speaker 3:Yeah, and by mitigate you mean like mitigate harm, like potential harm.
Speaker 2:Yeah To self and others.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, something that comes up with my clients is just like I do prefer when they like have a therapist or have like additional support when they're seeing me. But I also know that's not realistic for everyone. Part of me is like afraid to put that limit on my clients, because I know that I need to work with people and yeah. But that's something that's come up for me is just making sure they have like really good support and I really want to learn I I don't know yet, but I want to learn how to like help someone make like a safety plan too for themselves, like while they're working with me, so that they know when some of the signs and stuff that maybe they need to reach out for my additional support. Yeah, I feel like maybe just kind of building up some of my knowledge and resources. I feel like on like trauma-informed support and stuff like that and making sure that, yeah, that I have some stuff in place, I guess.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. And then can I offer a couple of things? Yeah, please, yeah, okay, yes to everything you just said. The other thing that I encourage is you've mentioned the coaching industry quite a bit, and I'm grateful that you have, because it's an unregulated industry, right, which has its goods and it has its not so goods.
Speaker 2:Um, I personally, uh, my background is psychotherapy, so I'm licensed as a psychotherapist and going through the training and the licensing and so all of that, my perspective is a little bit different than a standard coaching perspective and the training that I went through in my education and even in the licensing and the 10 years that I spent in the mental health field, they're very, very firm on you always consult, consult, consult, consult. And I don't know if you've ever watched the show Couples Therapy.
Speaker 3:Oh, no, not yet, but I've heard about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you're going to love it. Side note, I feel like you're going to love it.
Speaker 2:But in couples therapy, what I love so much is you watch the therapist, orna, you watch her consult on her cases with her direct supervisor and then her peers, and I always encourage anybody who is stepping out into the field of helping others, encourage anybody who is stepping out into the field of helping others, especially within like a healing capacity consult. Have people that you can go to who are of the same like healing space, but a different modality maybe, and don't ask them questions how did I handle this situation? How would you have handled the situation? Is there anything that you can see that maybe I missed or didn't consider Like that's so important, Like you said earlier, because I really resonate with this, when you're dealing with the lives of other people right.
Speaker 2:Like. This is their livelihood. It's a big deal you know and you're doing identity work Really big deal, you know doing identity work really big deal, you know. So that's the first thing I would encourage you to do, and I'm I'm. You know. There are people out there who are incredible, who would be happy if you messaged them and said hey, there's something that came up with one of my clients. Could I bounce this off of you and just see if there's anything I'm missing?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I like that a lot.
Speaker 2:You know, so that's number one. It's just from a professional, like consult, consult, consult, consult, okay. And then the second thing is I'm married to an artist and it's incredible and I would say that we're both artists in a different way, but his art is very. It's meant to make people think and address the elephant that's in the room. When we really sat down and looked at, okay, what's the trajectory here with where you're going with your art and where I'm going in my career, we really decided intentionally that we would be the safe space, and that not only from an I see you, I love you, it's unconditional, no matter what perspective, but also from the perspective of I'm going to tell you the truth. If this has gone too far, if this has become too much, if, if I'm seeing something that feels out of integrity for me or looks a little out of integrity, I'm going to bring it forward to you and I I give you permission to do it for me.
Speaker 2:So I'm really a fan of like having this, call it a bubble, you know call it a call it a crew.
Speaker 2:I we call it like our home base, Like we can go out into the world and be expressive and allow people to judge us and to criticize us and to have their own experience in response to our beingness. Because we've got our home base, We've got the people in our lives that deeply know us, know our hearts, know our mind, know our integrity and have the ability to both say we love you so much, we support you, we're cheering you on and have the ability to check us. Yeah, that's so important because in a moment, somebody on the internets of the wild wild West could say something out of pocket and catch us in a moment. That's like oh, in a superhuman tender.
Speaker 2:I've had a bad day and now this I'm reading this, you know totally, and somebody else in our home base can be like let it go, yeah, step away from it for 24 hours. If you still feel the same after 24 hours, we'll craft a response so that you get your expression too Right. Or if after 24 hours you forgot to think about it, then perfect, you forgot to think about you. Know how does that feel for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that feels really good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I'm not hearing a money issue, which is what comes up a lot when we talk about money stuff is that money? Is just the trigger event.
Speaker 1:You know.
Speaker 2:Money is just the way in which the universe is trying to teach us something about ourselves.
Speaker 1:What?
Speaker 2:I'm hearing is a lot of care. That's sort of being atrophied by anxiety and like fear, and this was super helpful for me too in business, because it's like we're going to, we're going to make mistakes, we're going to make errors we have no ill intent and how do we clean it up? How do we repair it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally. Would you say it's also a trust issue? Because when I was hearing you say that, I also feel like it's a trust issue with myself. Still, which is Sure.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Feel like it's a trust issue with myself still which is sure you know what I mean Like yeah, yeah, well, that will. That's a part of to me, that the way I see that is like that's a part of the identity that we started to like unravel today of I might be. I'm a bad person.
Speaker 3:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:If I'm a bad person, then I have to question everything I do.
Speaker 2:And I have to put it through this filter of can I trust it? Can I trust it? Can I trust it Because I'm a bad person. Do you know what I mean? The reason I'm bringing up the mitigation or having a different plan in place is because people who have that plan in place start to collect more evidence that they're actually good people. So your brain, up until this point, has been reminding you you might be a bad person. You might be a bad person. You might be a bad person. You have an interaction. Did I hurt their feelings? Did I offend them? Did I?
Speaker 3:say something wrong?
Speaker 2:Was I too much? Did I come on too strong? Did I ask for too much money? Does this dialogue?
Speaker 3:resonate with you. Yeah, for sure, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, having the system in place is to me, it's providing the life jacket as you transition and identity.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, Cause it's like I'm not I'm not going to tell you to just start to jump from I'm a bad person to I'm amazing. That swing is really, even if it's true that swing and identity can feel like a hard right turn Totally, and I would not want anyone free falling into that because it puts somebody back into the situation where they're not really prepared, they're not really empowered.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Whereas, like, if you have a system in place, I go okay, when it does happen, this is how I will move. To me there's more like I have wiggle room. I'm not in denial that. I'm not going to harm somebody or I'm not going to make a mistake or I'm not going to make an error. I'm in the awareness that the chances of me making an error are there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2:And when I do, I know I have a plan in place to repair it, clean it up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I like that a lot Because I think part of the belief system too is that it's not even that I'm a bad person, but it's that good people can do bad things as well. You know, that's been coming up a lot for me too. It's like it's just like you can be a really good person and doing your best and still cause harm. Yeah, I think that really stresses me out harm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, I think that really stresses me out, yeah, and and I would even venture, really invite you to explore in that, if you're allowed to make a mistake, am I allowed to make mistakes? Am I allowed to make errors, especially because earlier on we brought up like success is so important to you, right, and sometimes success is so important to us If we make an error. We become so critical, so unforgiving, so tough on ourselves when it's like, actually, we're giving it our all and we made an error and like it's okay.
Speaker 3:You know, what can we learn from?
Speaker 2:it? How does this error refine us? How does it make us better?
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amazing. How do you feel?
Speaker 3:Amazing. Yeah, I feel great. Yeah, this has been like so, so good. I'm really impressed, and I don't really get impressed by coaches very often, so I'm so grateful to hear that.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, what I hear from you is that, like, everything is there. It's just like some more support, some more for self, you know, and just processes, so that you know like more grace for self, more compassion and really knowing that like, look, I'm here to help and to support and I'm going to give it my best and I'm going to let people know I exist, yeah, and I'll. I'll make mistakes, I'll make errors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if they need cleaning up, I'll clean them up, and if they don't, I'll learn from them. It'll be what it be. Yeah, yeah, thank you so much, sapphire this is incredible.
Speaker 3:No, thank you, this was really really good.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my pleasure.
Speaker 2:As we complete this episode, I would love to know your insights, takeaways and feedback, you can message me on Instagram at katielinrojano, or send them via email to katie at katielinrojanocom. Any products or digital downloads I mentioned can be found via the link in my Instagram bio. If you enjoyed this episode, I encourage you to share it with at least one friend and leave a five-star review so we can get these impactful dialogues into the lives of even more people. I would also like to thank my guests for their vulnerability and generosity in allowing us to learn from them and grow alongside them. Until next time, friends, let's go beyond.