BEYOND
BEYOND
Episode 7 BEYOND Leadership: Mastering Team Dynamics and Emotional Balance
Ever wondered how successful entrepreneurs manage to balance personal investment with professional detachment while leading a team? Our latest episode promises to unravel the emotional complexities of team management through the eyes of our special guest. We dive deep into measuring the effectiveness of team management using metrics like employee happiness, productivity, and task attitudes. Learn how to harness both energetic and practical feedback to ensure your team remains aligned and burnout-free.
Discover why embodying personal values in business is a key ingredient for success in our segment on building a culture of alignment. We reveal the significance of selecting team members based on complementary energies and inherent values, and the delicate dance between immediate needs and finding the right energetic match. We also delve into the lessons learned from facing fears like disappointment and betrayal, and the importance of vulnerability and emotional support in professional relationships.
Embark on a transformative journey of self-reflection and growth with our discussion on ownership in leadership. We shed light on identity and shadow work, showing how evolving past old patterns can elevate your career and personal life. Find out how to set clear boundaries and expectations, inspired by Ray Dalio's "Principles," and refine the hiring process for better leadership outcomes. The episode wraps up with heartfelt gratitude to our guest for sharing her unique perspective on being a powerful woman in business, providing invaluable insights for all aspiring leaders.
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Hello, my friend, and welcome to Beyond the personal growth podcast for the people who are healing beyond their conditioning and beyond the cycles that played out before them. My name is Katie Lynn and, with 20 years of experience in the field of psychology and human behavior, I am bringing my natural curiosity, expertise and personal life experiences here for discussions that are guaranteed to be informative, inspiring and entertaining. I'm glad you're here. Let's get started. All right, I'd like to welcome our guest on for today. Thank you so much for being a participant in today's episode. I would love to know where you'd like to start.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2:I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2:I want to start on relationships, I would say, as I'm growing into more of who I am as an entrepreneur and as an adult, who I am as an entrepreneur and as an adult, I am noticing a lot of relationship patterns that I have felt have served me in a way of growth but also have been challenging and hard to go through and process and hard to go through and process, and, being that I'm really heart-centered and that I love and care really, really hard, I'm finding that in the position that I'm in, running a business, having a team, not everybody is permanent and the idea that I have is maybe I need to disconnect a little bit more instead of lean in, and then my spirit is like no, don't do that, keep showing up as yourself, keep being authentic.
Speaker 2:So I'm curious as to, and in working with you also in the past and having many, many conversations about different relationships, I'm curious if you because you've also been a witness to it like, have any reflection or sharings for me that can aid me in the future in the dynamics of having a team, because a lot of times my mind will go to like escapism where it's like, oh, this is too hard, I'm just going to exit out and I want to opt out and I don't want to do this anymore. Right, and maybe a team is not for me and maybe it isn't right. So I'm still vacillating between am I equipped to run and lead a team, or am I more a solo practitioner, and is me working with my guest base where it's going to be for me and is that where I feed into right, because I want to make sure that I'm giving my all to those who I serve and I don't want to feel drained and not able to do that if I'm not fully aligned with my team. Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:I am just taking a moment to write down two things that came to mind as I'm listening to you, because what you're speaking to is the trickiest part of any endeavor. Is the relationship component right, whether it's romantic relationships, whether it's relationships with our parents, whether it's relationships to our peers, and especially relationships from the perspective of managing a team, because you have so many different roles and so many different personalities and it can be like the fast track to personal development is how I like to think of it when you go into the business of managing teams and people, as I hear you share that. Like you have been managing a team and there's been some turnover, you're sort of in the wrestling correct me if I'm wrong of like is it me or is it them, or am I built for this? Maybe is the questions lingering, like am I supposed to even have a team? I would like to know how do you measure the effectiveness of how you're running a team? What are your points for that?
Speaker 2:Can you elaborate a little bit more?
Speaker 1:Sure. So let's say I have a, I'm an entrepreneur and I'm a CEO and I have a team of five people and I need to have a way that I'm measuring the effectiveness of my management skills and how I'm doing in managing that team. So what are the data points that I'm choosing? Am I choosing employee happiness as one of the data points? Am I choosing the rate at which they stay in their positions? Is that a measurement? Am I looking at how their attitude is at work? Is that a measurement? Am I looking at their productivity? Is that a measurement? Does that make sense? Where I'm like I'm looking for and the reason I bring this up is because you're already measuring it and we're always evaluating right In our minds. It's just not always conscious.
Speaker 1:And so my intention with this question is to bring it forward so that one we get to look at sort of what you've been measuring and see if that's helpful or accurate or even effective, and then we get to also create the new data points going forward that might be more helpful and more accurate.
Speaker 2:Okay, thank you so much for that, because it really helps me pinpoint where I've been and how it's been. I measure a lot of it energetically. So you said, how do they show up with their attitude and all that? And that is a big factor for me because I am so receptive to energy. So when I feel if, even if I'm asking for a task or saying, hey, is it possible for you to take care of this or is it possible for you to add this to your calendar, things like that, add this to your calendar, things like that If I get resistance with the feedback, I then am like they don't want to do it Right, and because they don't want to do it for me, it's in my mind.
Speaker 2:I think, well, I wouldn't want to work in anything that I don't want to do. Also, being the owner, I understand that there are things that need to be done that I don't want to do. That I do Right, but it's also my business. So I do it Right and with my team, if, if it's a task that requires them to step outside of maybe their typical day-to-day and I notice resistance, I'm like, oh okay, well, then, noted, maybe I will seek elsewhere for that assistance. Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure, and I gauge a lot off of that.
Speaker 2:And then also the happiness factor, because I am in an industry where if you are not feeling good and if you're not in a good mood, if you're not happy, it shows through a lot, not just in what your energy is like in the space, but in the way you are with the people you work with, because we physically are we're, you know, we're touching our guests, we're operating with them, and so, in my experience, when we are not aligned in that way, then it can show through in our work. Right, it's almost like and I love this way of describing it it's like cooking, right, you can make a meal just to eat it. Cooking, right, you can make a meal just to eat it. Or you could put so much love into that meal and then eat it, and they can be the same meals, but the one that has all the love is going to taste way better, right, and you're going to hear, oh, I don't know what you did, but this just tastes so good. And that is how I perceive it in the space of, you know, the service industry. If you don't love it, then don't do it Right, because it's going to be felt energetically, even if someone can't pinpoint it Right. Like if we have a new customer and they're like I just don't know what it was, but it didn't work out Right and it could be still good quality, but if that energy is not there, then there's not going to be a return.
Speaker 2:And what comes to my mind is am I thinking that everybody operates like me with their guests in that regard?
Speaker 2:Is that what I want?
Speaker 2:Because I also know that there's only one me, right?
Speaker 2:So I realized I have to be realistic about it in that regard, because there's no two of me in that regard, because there's no two of me, but, and because I am such a teacher and I love to share and I love to teach and I love to show, like, let me show you, I'm not going to gatekeep anything, I'm not trying to be better than anyone in the sense of I want everyone to be at a good level and I want you to be better, you know.
Speaker 2:And if that for me, I'm not thinking I want you to be good but not better than me, right? Like, if you're better than me, oh my gosh, I'm so happy for you, right? And even then just saying that I think, like I'm never in competition in that way. I've heard because the industry can be that way where it's you know, someone who's very, very talented doesn't want to show anyone because they want to be the best. I always tell everyone who's ever worked with me that there are so many people out there in the world and that we're going to find our guest base, like we're going to have who we're supposed to have Yep.
Speaker 1:So what I'm hearing as you share this is a part of the journey in building a team, especially with you being the CEO and their, like, lead manager at the same time. It's kind of like dating where, unless you're like the 1% where you meet your person immediately, you're going to have to date a few different people to figure out what you do want and what you don't want. Those lessons are not the funnest because they're lessons in contrast. So it's like there's people that I've been out with that I'm like that is exactly what I don't want. All in one, thank that person for giving me that awareness right being grateful to have that experience with that person, because now I am more clear on what I don't want and what I do want. So, having said that, it sounds like your journey with team building up until this point has been a journey of contrast, Because when I hear you share, now what I hear is you talking about the culture, the culture of your particular business and how your guests experience that culture, particular business and how your guests experience that culture and what I hear is enthusiasm, growth, oriented, heartfelt, loving, supportive and abundant Like. Those are really what I've heard, and I'm sure there's more, and these are the things that you're as you go forward and you build a team, because I definitely see you as somebody who has a team. I just see you also as somebody who's growing into the woman that has a team. That's really in alignment, because I'm also a big believer that we pick the people who are reflections of our current state of awareness of self. I see this as what your experience is currently being, and the mindset shift that I'd like to offer is that it is you learning. It has nothing to do with your inadequacy and it has nothing to do with your capacity. In fact, I think it's the opposite. It's a reflection of your capacity, because you've had so many people come through not so many as in like a ton, but like enough people come through so that you can say, oh, this is what's a fit, this is what's not a fit, this is who I am.
Speaker 1:And all of these people, whether they work out in the way that you thought they would or not, are actually contributing to you knowing yourself even better. And now you're more clear and you're like no, my space gets to be enthusiastic. Everybody has a good attitude, everybody is happy to be here, everybody wants to be here. Everybody loves doing this and they feel like they were made for it, they were born for it and they have this loving way of being with themselves and other people and they're also very clear. So there is no undercurrent of energy when you make a request right Of like hey, can you do this? There's no undercurrent of unacknowledged energy. It's very clear, like yes, I would love to, or could we ask someone else, just for today, and on another day I'd be willing to take it right Like. There's this clarity of communication and connection to self that makes it so that you're very clear, because I feel like you're somebody who really loves clear communication and honest and transparent communication.
Speaker 1:That requires a really good a level of self-awareness for people to be clear in that way, and so what I'm seeing as you share is these are actually the things that, as you bring on new people, these become your filters, and you hear this in sports a lot, where it's like you get so far with skill in sports, but there comes a point where it's going to have to be your mentality and your heart, where heart and mentality will beat skill any day if somebody has it more right. It's like that idea of like it's not the size of the dog of the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog. You can teach certain skills. And it's almost like you'd rather have the person who's more enthusiastic, willing to grow, willing to learn, loves to be there, who's maybe not so good at a certain skill, than having the best person at that skill, who has terrible energy. I feel like that's more your person. You'd rather have the heart, the energy, the enthusiasm letting them know this is the culture.
Speaker 1:The culture is we're zesty, we're enthusiastic, we love being here, we want to contribute, we want to leave this space better than we found it, every single day.
Speaker 1:We believe that we're changing lives and the services that we provide. We believe that we're the bright spot in somebody's day when they come in and when they leave, and that's the culture you're signing up for. And then the question is how are you already embodying that in your life? And that's the question for you every day as you walk in and live in your business. But it's also a question for the people that you're interviewing. It's like how do you already demonstrate this in your life? And this is what I love about you and I tell you this all the time, but like you're an innovator, so it's like you're building. The way that you build business is a little bit backwards, but it's not backwards, it's the way businesses a lot of businesses would have more success if they did it this way, which is, you focus on culture and the mission and the branding and then you bring in the people who you can teach and build their skill level.
Speaker 2:That is something that needs to be really self-motivated. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:It makes sense, it's got to be something that's inherent to them, yes, that they hold this as a personal value themselves, which is one of the reasons I said the question gets to be for them that you ask them in some way, shape or form how are you already demonstrating this in your life? Because for you, with me, knowing who you are, you live this way. It's like you said, you can't duplicate you, but you're not. You're not looking for duplicates. You're looking for compliments, people who are the puzzle piece. Maybe somebody else has this vibrant, beautiful energy and it's a little more comical, right. Or maybe somebody else has it and it's a little more dry. So you're looking for right. It's like, sort of, when I talk to women or men about dating and relationships. You're looking for complimentary. How are you complimentary, right? And so when you're bringing people on for your team, you're looking at how are we two puzzle pieces where you're? You're bringing a skillset or an energy that I, that I value. That makes this space a really beautiful tapestry for our guests.
Speaker 2:I love that. It feels very aligned with the, the brand and the culture I feel like when it comes to managing a team, sometimes I want to rush at it where I'm like we need this. You know the spaces filled. And I think that there have been times where I've maybe overcommitted with an individual and then energetically we're not a match and then I kind of pull back a bit. I know on the opposite end there's like a well, what's going on Right, but it's for me, because we're, I don't feel, the energetic match. And going back to, I want to be passionate about what I'm doing and when I'm generating something, I want to make sure that I'm doing it like a hundred percent with my all. And if I'm not feeling that on the other end, it's kind of like well, we'll see, and then it'll teeter off a bit.
Speaker 1:What we really get to, I think, consider, is that every single relationship is trying to teach us something, and it's not trying to teach us something about the other person. It's teaching us something about ourselves. The question that I often ask myself, especially when it comes to relationships that I'm very invested in what am I afraid of? What is my deepest fear? And really and I love that you use this language at the beginning as well as you said, you know, and really and I love that you use this language at the beginning as well.
Speaker 1:as you said, you know, my spirit is saying to lean in, and that's actually where we lean in.
Speaker 2:And we go. One of the things that's hard for me maybe is to watch somebody else be disappointed in me. That is definitely one of them. Disappointment yeah, betrayal, absolutely 100%. It goes kind of hand in hand with betrayals like disloyalty. Yeah, betrayal, absolutely 100%. It goes kind of hand in hand with betrayals like disloyalty. Yeah, I think also I'm vulnerable to an extent. You know, I can be very vulnerable and then if I feel like, um, energetically it doesn't ever have to be said but if I feel like my emotions are not held, it's like, okay, I'll close them up now, right, like from here on out.
Speaker 1:That's really the deeper work that this is inviting you into is like, oh, how do I be in ownership of this? We've got to be in ownership because the idea is, the more easily sort of offended we are, the more easily controlled we are.
Speaker 1:And so that's where, especially when we're managing teams, it's like the level of ownership that gets to exist there is so high. It can be very confronting, because the team will bring forward for you every negative judgment that you've thought about yourself, that you haven't let out of your inner dialogue, and they'll mirror it back for you. If we're not in ownership. Yeah, if I'm in ownership and somebody comes and tells me, oh, I think you're a terrible manager, if I'm an ownership, I can say you know, I've had days where I have felt that way too about me, where I've questioned it, and I'd like to thank you for bringing that forward for me, and I would love to hear your thoughts on why, because maybe your reasons are the same reasons. I had that judgment against myself too, and, if so, now I've got two people or two perspectives on it, I can make some adjustments and I'd be really grateful for your help in that.
Speaker 1:It's always us, and that's where it gets really tender. It gets really. That's the part that we're like oh, I wish it was just so much easier to just say it's them, and it also is so much more healing on our end when we can go. Where is it in me and what's the work that I can do internally, around my identity, around my mindset, around my spiritual work, so that I'm able to face judgment with compassion and I'm able to face disappointment with compassion, and I'm able to know that I'm playing a game in air quotes and that every game includes wins and losses and I'm going to take some L's and I'm going to take some wins, and that just lets me know I'm still playing the game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I definitely feel like that's something that not that I need to work on in the sense where I'm thinking negatively about it and putting it on a task list, but I want to work on because I find that I can also be avoidant attachment in the sense where, once it's magnified or not even magnified, but just reflected to me, I'm like, okay, well, I'll just like pull back, nevermind, you know, we'll cancel the next, you know, whatever interaction we're supposed to have, um, because it's almost like I can't show up now because I'm embarrassed to show up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if I show up, I'm going to be emotional and the opposite of what you see me as on a regular day. Yeah, on a regular day. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And this is where I wonder in this process, when I heard you say you know I'm going to work on this, and not from the space of lack or inadequacy, but it's really you're headed into a next level of your career, and that next level of your not just career but life in general, and every next level is really, as cheesy as it sounds, it is so real. It's going to require an evolution in your identity, which means that we embrace these new qualities and characteristics but we also have to let the old ones fall away. And that means that we've got to take a deep, hard look at ourselves and this is the shadow work and looking at like oh, this is where I've defaulted to people pleasing, or this is where, when I get hurt emotionally, I fall into apathy and this is where these certain patterns and it's like, oh, I got to adjust that. You know what I mean. I've got to like let that go and figure out what my new version of that is going to be.
Speaker 1:I hear a woman who's deep in the identity work and that involves a lot of shadow work, which is so confronting and really uncomfortable, because we would never want to, I think, admit to ourselves that we have the ability to be that way or to function that way or to abandon ourselves in that way, and it's also such a fertile ground for who you're becoming and the vision that you have. I deeply believe that you know what the vision is. You're just in the thick of the how, Absolutely, and that's a spiritual journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking well, having helping hands in the business is very nice because I get to settle back and take care of other things or do them more at a I don't want to say slow pace, but a pace of ease, where I'm not rushing and I feel that, because I'm in this space of shadow work and healing, it doesn't feel like a space where I can just onboard. Yeah, because I wouldn't want to onboard and then still be figuring it out, figuring out where I am at in the process of it, for sure.
Speaker 1:I absolutely agree with this, because this is where we take inventory. We look and we go okay, how did I contribute to creating this environment that just ended? That I know or this relationship if it's a toxic relationship that just ended, that I know is not for me what were the ways of being that I embodied during that time that allowed this to come to fruition and sustained it? When we go back sort of to the middle of this call and I'm reflecting back to you these, these components of your culture I think what I would invite you into is to really brainstorming the values of the to is to really brainstorming the values of the business.
Speaker 1:What is the culture, how do we describe it, what do we expect out of our consultants and our employees and what is our commitment to our clients every single day? And having that be so clear so that, even as you do change things, even as your brand evolves right, because it's going to, because it belongs to you, right. So you're an ever evolving, you're a creative, you're an innovative woman, so it's going to grow and evolve and most wonderful, amazing, long lasting brands do, and you need to but the values stay the same. Yeah, and it's like that core piece of like. It doesn't matter if you change your colors or if you change your aesthetic or if you change even physical locations. When your clientele shows up, they know that they're going to be wrapped in these four or six elements. Every single time. They can rely on these four or five things, or six elements. Every single time, they can rely on these four or five things and those are your values.
Speaker 1:And the other thing that I'll add that I think is super effective, and it comes out of Ray Dalio's book Principles he used to have his employees rate themselves. They would have to come in and rate themselves, and then they would rate each other, which I don't know if you'd go that far or not, depending on how your culture moves and how freely everybody feels to express themselves honestly and receive, give and receive feedback, really like taking into consideration like how, how do, how would you rate yourself today and why? And how would I rate myself today and why? And that way there's this automatic built into the culture of reflection and of growth, knowing that, like, look, every single day, our intention is to get 1% better and if we can get 1% better, then we'll always be great.
Speaker 2:There's been a lot of boundaries coming from the employee side, which when I started they didn't really exist so much because I was also the employee that was like hungry and so hungry that, yeah, I will take an extra and stay longer and then if there's anything outside of working hours, I'll be there, I'll show up. And you know, for the experience, really, um, and I'm very fortunate that my mentor took me under her wing and she would take me to events, just to her and I, uh, we're going to this networking event. Come with me. We're going to this networking event. Come with me. We're going to a luncheon. Come with me. We're going to whatever it was business related. Come with me. I was so extremely excited to do it and extremely thankful that I was chosen to do that Right. But I also know a lot of that played a lot of how I operated, played a role into that, because I was like, yeah, I'm so hungry, feed me Right.
Speaker 1:And and could this be a quality that you put up front when you bring on new team members? Yeah, it could. It reminds me of me learning after two relationships that did not go well in my early 20s Learning that one of the missteps I made is that I tried to be the cool girl. In having these people think that I was the cool girl, it meant that a lot of dirt was done in front of me and to me and I didn't feel like I could say anything about it, because I was trying to be the cool girl and what I realized about myself is that I don't want to be the cool girl.
Speaker 1:I will be the woman that you think is difficult and that you know. If you're going to bring something to me, you better look at over two or three times and you better adjust your collar and you better stand up straight, because I have expectations and I have standards and I don't want you to think I'm easygoing and I don't want you to think that I'm the chill girl next door, because I'm not. I'm not here for the BS. There's billions of people on the planet that will be not me. You know I'm loving and I respect you and I want the best for you and I will support you to the best of my abilities. But don't bring me the nonsense because I'm not available for it. I don't believe, especially when you're running a service-based business. I don't think that there's anything wrong with you making it very clear. We don't tolerate the hokey pokey over here. You know, like you're one foot in, one foot out. No, ma'am.
Speaker 1:We don't tolerate it over here. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, we really are here for the people who want to be well respected and well known and well regarded as highly professional, amazing, incredible people at what they do and who they be. Incredible people at what they do and who they be. And when we can really stand in that and let everybody fall away, that's the hardest part is letting everybody fall away. Who doesn't agree with that? Who is irritated by us for standing in that? Who wants to judge us for standing in that? How dare she right? Who does she think she is Letting them fall away and then letting the people who see it and go? That's what I want. Yeah, I want to be well-respected. I want to be highly regarded. I want to be the best. I want to be a part of the best, I want to be affiliated with the best. That's what I'm about. Letting them find us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm so happy that you said that, because I feel like I vacillate on the.
Speaker 2:I'm cool, like chill, and then when I'm not, it's like, oh, my goodness, her panties are in a bunch, which I feel like I'm disappointing when I'm not cool and chill and like you know everything's, you know mellow and whatnot. But it's interesting because I've read different articles that talk about that millennial bosses are really doing things differently, that they're shifting the way they run and operate businesses or teams or corporations, companies, stuff like that, because we don't see in just black and white and we really we want the flexibility of having our personal lives and having success and we don't feel like we can't have both. And with saying that, again going back to the resistance, if it's like, oh, can you stay? And X, y and Z, then I'm impeding on the personal life, right. And then I'm like, oh, I don't want to do that, right? So if the answer is no, then in my mind I'm like, okay, well, then I'll do it, right. But then again going back to wanting to feed others and then I'm instead feeding myself.
Speaker 1:I'm really full and I'm at max capacity, yeah, and when you shift your standards of who you bring in and how you filter these people out, you won't get those people anymore. You won't get those people that are like eye rolling oh my gosh because you'll get the people that are hungry and not only are they hungry, they're efficient and they love what they do and they take pride in what they do.
Speaker 1:And that doesn't mean they're going to give you an extra two hours of their day if they didn't agree to it, but it means that the quality of their work is going to be so great that you probably wouldn't need the extra two hours anyways.
Speaker 1:Right, you know, but it's that kind of a deal where it's like if you carry and embody your business values as like we're the heart here. This is what we expect. We expect that you're going to be hungry. I'm here for the people who want full, amazing, expansive careers. This is not where you come and you are like to giggle and tee hee, hee and see three clients and leave. Yeah.
Speaker 1:This is like where you're going to have a really great time growing, learning, developing and building fantastic relationships, and you are here because you want to be here and you love it so much, and you love it so much that you're actually kind of sad when your shift is over. Yeah, that kind of an attitude and people exist like that. I'm one of them. Maybe not for that particular service, right, like I'm not in that field, but when it comes to something that I love, I'm the type of person where my husband has to come get me and be like come on, we're going to bed, come on, we're done, you know, and and then I'll. I'll be like five more minutes, or 20 more minutes, or or I'll be done, you know. Yeah, like you can't just pull me away because I love it so much and that me working for being a part of something where the person in charge didn't feel that way would be so unfulfilling for me. I would be like why am I here, you know? So there are these people there.
Speaker 1:It's just like the invitation is for you to be in greater ownership of it. Yeah, this is where it also to be fully transparent, cause you know, I'm not gonna lie to you. This is where women who are in leadership positions get called names and it's like no, she's got standards and expectations and she doesn't have time to coddle you and hold your hand and play to whatever limiting beliefs or insecurities that you have. And that doesn't mean that you're not compassionate. It doesn't mean that you're not loving. It doesn't mean that you're not compassionate. It doesn't mean that you're not loving. It doesn't mean that you're not generous. It just means that you're now embracing the identity of a woman who has certain standards and just doesn't have the time to give to anybody who's not willing to play there.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, I love that. I love that because I do feel that those things have already been said my mind of being human and not wanting to be judged and knowing that there could be gossip and all that in this position, it's very likely and it's actually, you know, it's, it's you can count on it and going forward.
Speaker 1:You can count and for anybody who's listening, if you're in a position of leadership, position of leadership visibility both there are people judging you. Yeah, absolutely, and one of the first mentors I had back when I was like 25, she was like Katie if you don't want to be judged, you might as well just get a day job and hide from the world. Now, yeah, stop trying to be someone and do something.
Speaker 1:Give up your goals now, because if you have a vision and you're chasing a dream or you're bringing a dream to life, you absolutely will be judged.
Speaker 2:It is inevitable. Yeah, definitely A hundred percent, and I think I'm still building up those muscles for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the other thing that really rocked my world when it finally landed is, no matter what others have to say, it came out of them.
Speaker 1:What others have to say, it came out of them, right, it didn't come out of my mouth, that came out of your mouth, that's you, wow. And that liberated me so much because there's some gnarly stuff that will happen in my head, right, like, if I'm being fully honest, like the judgments that I have against myself are worse than anything that anybody could probably tell me to my face. You know, and I've done the exercises where I've listed out all the judgments that I have against myself, just so that I could see them on paper, yeah, and just so that I could, my brain could go oh that one's false, oh that one's kind of true, oh that one's, you know, but like to see them. So that way, when I see them or hear them from somebody else, it's not jarring for me, it's not landing on a wound, because I've already looked there, you know. And that's where it's like I'm taking my power back, because I know who I am and how I can be, and I can choose how I can be in a moment because of the level of self-awareness. That's there and if I, if I move out of character, I can take responsibility for that and and shore it up, I'll watch people and be like, wow, that came out of you. You're going to try to pin that on me, but that was your voice that said those words not mine.
Speaker 1:So that became a real eye opener for me, because I used to take it on as my own. I was like, oh well, I must have made them do that. And it's like no, no, no, I've never held a gun to anybody's head and made you do something. Held a gun to anybody's head and made you do something. However you chose to react or respond to me is yours, so long as I'm always doing the best that I can to move with really strong good intentions and according to a long vision that matters to me and giving it my best effort and being willing to take ownership.
Speaker 1:Like I said, when I do step out of character, if I do get out of pocket, I will make the phone call. I'll be the first to be like I'm sorry, I stepped out of pocket. I'm, I'm apologize, you know, I forgot that I whatever. To be the type of leaders that can clean up our messes when we make them Cause we're human, and to also be the type that's like look, I'm, I'm not here for the nonsense is really powerful, but it also means that there will absolutely be judgment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, I have another question that comes along with this. Um, when you do take ownership of stepping out of the lines or out of pocket and you're received with a okay, how do you move forward from there? Because for me, my perception after that is like oh, I can't be human and you don't see me as human that I make mistakes as well see me as as human, that I make mistakes as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, the thing about that is this is really, um, it's subtle entitlement. Yeah, it's so subtle because I can't make you do anything. Yeah, and I can't make you act a certain way. Make you respond to me. There's definitely ways that I would love for people to respond to me, and it doesn't mean they're going to choose that way. And. I'm not owed it. So that's the other thing that I feel like comes with leadership is that, as leaders, we're not entitled to anything. Right.
Speaker 1:You know, and I don't even believe that's just a leadership thing, that's just how I have chosen to live my life. That's one of the principles is that nobody owes me anything. And it makes it so that when people do treat me kindly, it means even more to me because they don't owe it to me. And then when people do treat me poorly, it does. It can like float off my back like like water because they don't owe me any kind of particular treatment. So that to me goes back to like where am I expecting people to move in ways that I would, yeah, and where am I projecting that onto them? There's two ways of seeing that right. There's like this idea that if I take ownership and I come and I present it to you vulnerably and you roll your eyes at me, you're showing me you. Where am I letting that slide? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because? Do I keep people in my environment that lack compassion and empathy and forgiveness? Am I keeping people in my world that honor and operate according to transactional relationships and they play tit for tat? Because that's exhausting, you know, and it's not a fruitful way to operate in relationships, because nobody wins there. If everybody's measuring all the time, asking ourselves where are the unspoken expectations, creating future resentments for myself? And am I expecting people to operate the way that I would without telling them that and getting their agreement on it? And, in the same vein, am I letting people show me who they are and not believing them the first time? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because, like you said at some point, we're all adults. It's not like our kids, right, where they're like they're little, they're learning, right, we're still teaching, we're still in development. It's like we're talking about people who are a good amount into their adulthood. Right.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, so going forward, I would really encourage you to look at revamping your hiring process, and I'm not sure what it looks like now, but really having things in place that help you to make an assessment on is this person a really solid fit or not. And then, if they are, you also have an employee agreement that's very clear, with expectations that they sign and acknowledge and that you sign and acknowledge. And those expectations have to do with how not just the glorious things of having an employee right Of like when you get paid and when you, what's your time off look like, and what do requests for time off look like, all that kind of stuff. It's more like what do we do when a grievance happens? What do we do when miscommunication happens? What are the expectations there? What are the expectations when we have a guest that's unsatisfied? How do we handle that? Right, and so it's like going over these scenarios of like what your expectations are as the owner of the business and as the CEO and as the manager, and then what are the expectations of you when that happens? You know, as your leader, I will da, da, da, da, da, da, da da. Right, Like this is what I will go through as an employee or a contractor. This is what I expect from you.
Speaker 1:That way, everybody's clear, because the idea is that any unexpressed expectations do become future resentments. They become sort of the holes in the fabric of the business and it just makes it kind of messy, you know. And so then, if you have those things in place, then when it does happen, you reference it right. Messy, you know. And so then, if you have those things in place, then when it does happen, you reference it right, because you know that everybody's clear on it, they've agreed to it, they've read through it, they're aware of it, and instead of it being like a warning you know, I'm a bigger fan of like hey, I noticed this, let's have a conversation.
Speaker 1:So let's say, everybody gets two conversations to make the adjustments. How can I support you? What do you feel like you need? How can we handle this in the future if this situation presents itself again? Right. And then on the third conversation, there's an opportunity for release. It's like something is not working here, right, cause we do want to give everybody the opportunity to be human. Yeah, we want to acknowledge the humanity in people. We really want to know, you know, like, what's going on. What's happening? Um, how can we support you? This is a part of your growth, right? We've been in the work long enough to know that you're going to have some messy places in life. Yeah, and thank God for the people who were compassionate with us through ours, you know, and we also do want to make sure that we're upholding the standards so that it's a equitable environment for everybody who's there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that because I feel part of the reason why I haven't reason why I haven't um had the courage to do a release is it goes back to the other question that you had of um what my fears are Right and um, I would not want my team to feel like I've abandoned them as well.
Speaker 1:For sure, and any heart-centered entrepreneur that I've ever talked to self-included firing, is the hardest. It's the hardest. It's like a breakup is the hardest. It's like you care. You actually really deeply care about this person and it's not a fit and and you also know that it's not a fit for them either Like, like you, having them in the environment is not a fit for you, but also, like them, being in the environment is not a fit for them either. Right.
Speaker 1:So you're like basically taking a stand for everyone, right, and because you're the leader, it falls to you. You know it's a part of your responsibility, but it's the worst. Yeah, it feels awful. Yeah, it really does, you know. Yeah, that's one of those things. It's just like you. I don't know that it ever feels really good. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Unless you have some, unless you're dealing with somebody who's super mature. You know, like super mature, super aware, but those people you wouldn't, probably wouldn't be letting go of those people, Right, They'd probably be there, come to you and be like hey, it's time for me to leave. And you'd be like, thank you so much for telling me, you know. Like they probably like release themselves super amicably and beautifully and professionally, but that's usually not the case, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm learning.
Speaker 2:I'm learning that I have felt this evolution of self in my development in my um, personal and career and you know, we all know that when we go through shifts in our personal it reflects back onto our business. So, being in this place and and also reflecting on who I've once been in business right and as an employee, as a um bystander, right or someone who might be placing judgment right so sitting back and being like, wow, you know, I'm also learning from who I've been before and taking that knowledge and building this business and being in this position has really expanded so much for me and I love it. I really do escape mentality of oh, I can.
Speaker 2:Just, you know, I've told you this before, like I could just sell everything and go buy a farm and goats and do that. That's so tempting, but it's like my spirit is like no you know, you don't know anything about goats number one and number two. You're, you're not ready.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, there's work to be done here, right? This is a part of your soul curriculum, right, I get it. Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1:And I acknowledge you and I admire you for being on this journey, because it is not for the faint of heart, yeah, and there's a reason. You know that. It's like the path less traveled because it's so dynamic and it is. It's like the express course to personal mastery. You know the expedited curriculum, yeah, yeah. So I'm grateful for you. Thank you for sharing these lessons with us. Thank you for being so vulnerable and for giving us a peek on the inside of what it looks like to be in a position of power as a woman and wrestling with how you responsibly implement and leverage that power and service to the good of everyone.
Speaker 1:So thank you for being here. Thank you, yeah, yeah, my pleasure. As we complete this episode, I would love to know your insights, takeaways and feedback. You can message me on Instagram, at katielinrojano, or send them via email to katie at katielinrojanocom. Any products or digital downloads I mentioned can be found via the link in my Instagram bio. If you enjoyed this episode, I encourage you to share it with at least one friend and leave a five-star review so we can get these impactful dialogues into the lives of even more people. I would also like to thank my guests for their vulnerability and generosity in allowing us to learn from them and grow alongside them. Until next time, friends, let's go beyond.